ClearH20Scott's 2171..and more

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The reason for maching the base is to lower the port timing, raise compression and or to tighten the squish clearance.
I would bet Dennis is not doing this to lower the port timing as I am sure after the base is cut he raises the exhaust and transfers for more time area so my bets on he is doing it to tighten the squish clearance up. Dennis, does your machinist mount the cylinder on a expandable mandrel to turn it?
 
Scott..we are taking the base of the cylinder off yes, as bwalker has said, using a facing tool ( I think..no machinist here), and to reduce the squish clearance...

the cylinder is mounted in an expanding chuck bwalker, not a mandrel (as I was informed today) I am not even a novice when it comes to the machine work, I just take the pictures..lol...and let the masters do their work....so the terminology still eludes me..
 
Yup, missing marbles today, optical illusion playing tricks on
me. At first glance it looks like the part is tight up against the
chuck. I had to look at it again to see how the tool could get
up behind the base of the cylinder. How much is compression
actually increased? Keep the chips flyin'
 
.The smaller you make this clearance the more compression you will have.
You are correct dozerdan, but the true purpose for a squish band is to increase combustion speed. This happens because of the angle and the width of the suish band on the cylinder head is designed to squeeze mixture at high velocity to the center of the combustion chamber. The turbulance that this creates speeds up combustion speed which reduces the chance for detonation to occure. the squish band can also be manipulated to provide more power in various parts of a engines power curve.
 
Dennis..............
Trying to make sure I understand this correctly. Removing
material from the base will in effect bring the piston up closer
to the top of the combustion chamber. Is the squish clearance
measured at the top or bottom of the piston stroke?
 
Nice explanation of the squish band but his question was in regards to Squish clearance.I thought that I answered his question in a way that everyone could understand.
Later
Dan
 
Sorry Dan, I'm a little slow on 2-strokes, been working on them
for about 15 years, but only in a "replace what's broke" capacity.
Big old Clinton powerheads for ice augers my Grandfather used
to build. I quess my question is, is squish measured at TDC or
BDC?

Later On...........
 
Scott
My last reply was to bwalker's post.It was well written but it went over the heads of a lot of people on here.I just tried to make it simple.
You measure the clearance at TDC.
Later
Dan
 
It depends on displacement. Bigger motors get more clearance. here are som values for minimum squish clearance.
50-80cc=.5-.7mm
100-125cc=.6-.8
175-250cc=.8-1.0
Dozer, I just wanted him to get afeel for the pupose of a squish band. Not meant as a slam to you as I understand you build some pretty good saws.
Clearh20, Squish is a measurment taken of the outermost part of the combustion chamber. It measure the clearance of between the head and piston while the piston is at TDC.
 
Last edited:
Really?

For some reason I imagined about 5 thousandths less. But thats why I asked.

PS, Squish clearance is also known as quench clearance in 4 stroke terms.

:D
 
PS, Squish clearance is also known as quench clearance in 4 stroke terms.
Yep, although i have heard it reffered to as a squish band there to. The problem with a four stroke is they got all them unneccesary valves that complicate the combustion chamber.BTW get the squish clearance too close and really bad things start to happen in a hurry. Pisonts usually do not like to have a high speed collosion with the head.
 
Thanks for all the info guys, just trying to educate myself a
little. Can you have too much compression to a point where
you lift the head, or would there be a piston/head collision
first? Again, just curious.
 
No, not really. A tight squish clearance should not be confused with compression. As the clearance gets tighter compression does usually go up because the trapped volume gets smaller. Dont confuse The squish clearance with compression thought. A tight clearance is for creating turbulance which speeds the combustion process along. You can simply add material to the head to increase compression without touching the squish area although this is not common. If you go to high with the compression in a two cycle detonation rears its ugly head and destroys the motor. You also lose high rpm power because of increased pumping losses.
 
What sounds like mild disagreement here would soon disappear if you guys were all hanging out around the same bench, pointing at the same innards...

There is a bit more to BWalker's story about the purpose of the squish band, however. It all dates back to the 1920's and a fellow named Recardo who was doing research into understandin preignition and controlling detonation in engines...at the time there was almost no understanding of the difference between the two. The engines of those days, in combination with the fuels, were only able to use about
4:1 compression ratios without serious consequences.

Preignition is too far advanced ignition, caused by advanced timing, glowing deposits, etc. Preignition causes spark knock when all the fuel is ignited too soon, causing a pressure spike too far before TDC. Preignition also drives too much heat into the piston, cylinder head, and other engine parts, and thus can cause damage, even if knock isn't experienced.

Detonation is caused by the advancing flame front (and attendant pressure rise) trapping pockets of unburned fuel such that the fuel ignites explosively from the pressure...the fuel in the trapped pocket does not burn progressively but all-at-once. A look at a cylinder pressure graph will show an angled line up to a point where it turns into a near-vertical spike; the pressure rises to unsafe levels in literally no time at all, and the total pressure level reaches very high levels. The effect is almost like the piston crown being struck very hard by a large hammer.

Preignition is a common cause of detonation, of course, but Recardo learned that combustion chamber design has a great deal to do with controlling detonation. The molecules in the fuel/air mix that are in contact with the relatively cool combustion chamber surfaces almost never combust, and when they do, do so inefficienlty, forming CO, etc. AS the flame front in the burning mix reaches the boundary areas of the combustion chamber, the flame is quenched even though there are still a few unburned molecules; also, as the cooler molecules are squeezed out of the QUENCH areas and mixed with the burning ones in the mix, flame propogation is slowed at the critical point in the burning sequence, as well as eliminating small, dense pockets of fuel/air mix that can detonate. For this reason, some motorheads call the squish area of a cylinder head the "QUENCH"

When fuels resistant to detonation are combined with well-designed combustion chambers, ignition can be timed optimally, pressure levels rise predictably, and motorheads are happy.
 
Thanks to Dan, BW, eyolf, and Harley. I think I understand a lot better now. The only thing I don't get, though, is it is the distance between the top of the piston, and what, measured at the lowest point in the combustion chamber?
 
piston, and what, measured at the lowest point in the combustion chamber?
The head at the outermost part of the combustion chamber. This area will have a small band that cirles the combustion chamber. It usually has a angle to it and can vary in width This is the area reffered to as the squish band.
Here is a pic of a head off a dirt bike. The squish band is the flat, angled are on the outer portion of the combustion chamber.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top