Climber training

[topnotchtree]

Is it tough to find companies willing to train climbers? I do line clearance, and up till now the contractor I work for was being paid for time and material by the utility. So pretty much as long as the crew looked like they were doing something, everyone was happy.There was lots of time to train new guys. Starting just recently, the contractor is being paid by lump sum. Like bid work. Now the contractors are not gonna want to see us spending alot of time training. It has to be tough as a company owner to see time spent on training,unless the contractor is getting paid hourly also.

 

[NickfromWI]

A new climber should do everything in their power to teach themselves. The work world is about making money. For many employers, they only are concerned about the money that has to be made TODAY. Too often, in my opinion, they aren't willing to invest the time now to teach new employees.

Also, I've worked for some small companies where I was the most knoweldgeable about trees and rigging. I've only been doing this a couple years and they didn't have much they could teach me.

Working at The Care of Trees (www.thecareoftrees.com) was good. They seemed to realize that there is value in education...even if many of the employees run off to work elsewhere!

love
nick

 

[topnotchtree]

I also moonlighted with an outfit on the weekends for a short while. I brought all my own stuff, including a pole pruner, which they did not have! In the first tree I did I set my work lines with my pruner. The guys were amazed! They never seen anyone set a rope with a pruner before! They treated me like god. They begged me to stay with them full time. Like I said before, I was with them a short while!

 

[NickfromWI]

Yeah, I worked at a place in Oshkosh....you shoulda seen them when I set my line 50 feet up in an Ash on my first day. (I made it on the first shot! Actually I was aiming for the a crotch about 12 feet above the one I got, but they didn't have to know that!)

That was good training working there, though. I learned from experience. I think your best bet (as far as learning goes) is to work at a place that is WAY above you....learn by watching. Then go work at some small place and learn by doing. Go back and forth a few times...then you'll see things you missed the first time!

love
nick

 

[topnotchtree]

I am sure I will take alot of flack from this.....but I think line clearance can be a great place for guys to learn. I hear alot of horror stories about lctt crews, and I do not doubt them. But I work with some pretty good guys. If you are eager to work, as an apprentice, you get to work with many different guys all the time. We usually have between 8 and 15 crews in each yard. Each foreman I worked for had something different to show me.

 

[MasterBlaster]

You can learn a lot doing ROW work, good and bad. I did.

 

[BigJohn]

Hey Nick I too worked for the care of trees. I made more money there than anywhere. That was partly due to all the hours I worked. I made more money there in 8 months than I did at my job for a year. They are good for training and safety but when it comes down to it its about the dollar. I started out doing line clearance right out of high school. I worked with my dad as a kid and learned alot. The repitition of the line clearance is what made me fast in a bucket. I also became desensitized to working around energized lines. When I was there we really did work hard and it wasn't what it is today. We did have some really good climbers. I used to be called a wanna be and that is all I would ever amount to. Look at me now.

What do you mean that training should be the responsibility of the climber to teach himself? Sure maybe if you want to be a better climber it should be the climber to seek out training. You can't just get it from a book. I could take a newbie and talk to I am blue in the face but he would never fully understand and apply it until he or she Lauren experienced it first hand.

 

[topnotchtree]

Like I said, we are just starting this lump sum business. We will just have to see how it goes. I ran a crew for about 4 years, and I enjoyed teaching. Scares the heck out of you sometimes, but I still enjoyed it. My apprentices all knew that if they worked hard in the morning, while the j-man and I climbed to get our production, I would let them climb just about all afternoon.

 

[kurtztree]

Where did my other post go. Here it is a numbers game for line clearance you wouldn't want to be stuck with a new guy because the numbers go downhill really fast if they dont know what there doing. I can get my foreman really fired up when I tell him I'm quitting so he can get a new guy. He has high blood pressure problems already hes only 30 so I gotta take it easy on him I guess.

 

[topnotchtree]

I am glad you said something about your lost post. I thought I was losing it!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

We did not edit anything

I've gotta partly agree with nick. Any good worker should practice on his own, I'v allwasy hated people who look at me like I'm stupid when i give them a hank of rope to practice knots at home.

By law though, the primary responcibility lies with the employer.

Some cannot understand the the increases in productivity that can be had when competant people take time with new hires, or people with some time in service too.

People who I have worked with, or have worked with Tom Dunlap or Sean gere all have said that they've picked up methods that make them better at what they do. The occasional infusion of new perspective alone is worth the money.

But then too many people are fixated on the short term bottom line and loose track of any long term thought.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I've ovreheard groups of arbos talking sports that have confused me. The chatter is about off-season training and then pre-season camp. The expectation is that a good athlete will do some training in the off season so that they keep their tone.

I remember hearing about how Kirby Puckett and Ken Hrbek showed up for spring training like a couple of rolly pollys. The sports columnists were all over them for not taking better care of themselves like pros. The beginning of the season showed the effect. It took a while for K&K to get in the swing.

IF arbos are pros, and most that I've talked to consider themselves to be pros, why don't they learn a bit no their own time. That seems to me to be the mark of a pro. Why is the expectation that the only time they will learn is on company time?

Stepping off the soapbox

Tom

 

[jkrueger]

working out

I started by pruning shrubs and small trees. I'm very good at connecting to the plants. Well some of the small trees had work that I couldn't reach with a pole and I hate ladders. So, an arborist that I work for suggested ISA Penn-Del's climbing school.

Yikes, everyone thought I was nuts, a 62 year old guy trying to get his butt off the ground. I did and have kept going.

Through out the winter when the arborists that I work for said the weather was to bad or to cold to work I'd go down to the river and find some big old tree and climb. Always trying out new things. Getting real comfortable with the system. Building agility and strength.

And of course reading everything at this site picking things up and trying them out.

A funny one on the side: the other day I had to do a TD, which I hate to do even though I can be very inventive with the physics. Well, pulling a leaner up to verticle and over was short with the come a long and rope supplied by contractor. Yikes, ..., I assumed without check out the gear first, ... so, I thought to attached another shorter line to the bull rope running from the top of the tree to the come a long connected to the base of another tree. Hahahah, I thought, how can I do this with everything under tension. I used a Blakes hitch with a couple of xtra turnes. I was able to take the strain on the bull and re-set the come a long twice. In my mind I was thinking about some of the stuff I'd read here and in knot applications.

Anyway, when not climbing for money I climb for pleasure and experience and when that is impossible I try out crazy ideas with rope and physics.

Work out! I have to being 62 with a mind of a 19 year old.

Practice tying knots one handed. Practice with your saddle on and eyes shut attaching tools, new hook ups with lanyard, etc.

Work out until it is all fluid. Ya, ..., puff, puff.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Are you going to start tree camping this summer JK?

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by BigJohn
What do you mean that training should be the responsibility of the climber to teach himself? Sure maybe if you want to be a better climber it should be the climber to seek out training. You can't just get it from a book. I could take a newbie and talk to I am blue in the face but he would never fully understand and apply it until he or she Lauren experienced it first hand.

I mean that you should take it upon yourself to actively learn as much as you can. If you just rely on what you are given at work you're limiting yourself. You are limiting yourself to what your boss knows and likes.

Get around, ask questions, try new things, climb on your own time (no saws), watch other people, read the books, watch the videos, fail, try again, and learn.

Love what you do, or else just show up at 8 and leave when the day is done. No one else will care if you don't.

love
nick

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Are you going to start tree camping this summer JK?

I want to try tree camp, ..., sleeping high up in a tree is a confrontation , and YES!

I've talked to a Jim McGee in the tree dept of Central Park, NYC to get cleared to climb there, da, he said no, and wanted me to climb with him when possible. I wanted to spend a couple of days camping in the trees of Central Park.

Maybe a NEW topic, i.e, tree camping.

Later,
Jack