Climbing Techniques

[Tree Machine]

Off topic just a little, but can I ask why you prefer setting & re-setting your rope with a pole, rather than using a bigshot and going high once?

I only rarely use a shot bag, I prefer to use a set pole to advance myself up the tree.

There's gotta be a reason.

 

[the Aerialist]

Oh yes, there is a reason ...

Off topic just a little, but can I ask why you prefer setting & re-setting your rope with a pole, rather than using a bigshot and going high once?

There's gotta be a reason.

The motorcycle wreck a year ago separated and broke my right collar bone badly and also the left shoulder blade was fractured. (along with 8 broken ribs). The BigShot is extremely uncomfortable and even the between the legs toss method (not my favorite even before the wreck) is painful. It's the follow through that causes the difficulty in hand tossing.

I'm actually faster with a big ladder, long set-pole, and two ropes than I am when you consider the time cost of misses, of which I've always had many, even before the accident, and stuck / hung-up bags.

I can't even calculate the crew costs I've incoured over the years when four guys watch me fuss with those things for 15~20 minutes while they have nothing to do.

 

[the Aerialist]

Well, nice to have met you ..

Dude, I believe I DID meet you. It was at the end of day three. I photo'd Kevin's demo, then bolted over to the treepeedo booth.... I find spliced ends on my rope to be a major advantage. ... advantage 2 needs to outperform advantage 1. That's my only requirement.

We were packing up then, once we got rid of the last demos we bolted, I gave them a trip up to Mt. Washington, the 800' ridge that overlooks the three rivers and we had a traditional beer and 'burgers that is the staple of Pittsburgh cuisine and they were off to the Great White North.

I like a tight eye on one end and a 4' loop on the other. I use both ends of my long rope if I don't want the load of two ropes.

Is it OK to PM you?

 

[treeslayer]

off topic just a little, but can i ask why you prefer setting & re-setting your rope with a pole, rather than using a bigshot and going high once?

There's gotta be a reason.

time.

 

[tree md]

LOL I set 5 lines in a large removal I did last month before I ever even entered the tree. Two TIPs, two rigging points and a tag line. Took me maybe 20 minutes to set all my lines but it saved me tons of time in the tree.

My rookie kept asking me why I was setting so many lines. I told him to just watch and he'd see. The tree was a large codom Oak that was lightening struck and one main fork was dead. I went from side to side as I went up lowering to two different drop zones. I needed a tag line on one large limb to keep it from swinging back into the neighbors house. Had to get way out on it to make my cut. It was a huge lateral.

4' DBH Oak lowered from over the neighbors house and privacy fence done in an hour and a half and set every line from the ground.

 

[the Aerialist]

Father Time?

time.

I've had crew guys who were good at it and I would give that job to them, but in the end I pretty much decided to work around my limitations and just used the set pole.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ahhhhh.. Ok. I understand now, and that makes perfect sense. Sorry about your motorcycle accident. It's the follow-through that gets takes you out. Owwww.

Without the follow-through it would be like Tiger Woods whacking a drive, but bailing on his swing right after the ball is struck. As we know, Tiger cuts through the ball with authority and follows through completely until there is no more swing to be swung. From the standpoint of results, this is how its done. Same with a baseball swing. If you want to put the ball out where you want it, you hit the sucker and follow through with conviction. Kicking the field goal. The slapshot. Getting the girl. Success has so much to do with the follow-through.

In throwing a shotbag, the same principals apply, especially the higher the throw. You can be sloppy on low throws like rigging lower limbs while on the ground, but climb line throws 'generally' serve you best to nail as high a tie-in point as you can get. To get consistent, accurate, high sets, follow-through is critical. That point can not be overemphasized.

 

[pdqdl]

Easy, relatively inexpensive solution:

1.Get a big shot.
2. Get an archery release, or one of the trigger systems for the big shot.
3. Rig it with a lightweight pulley system for mechanical advantage to help you draw the shotbag to the distance needed.
4. (Optional) Put marks on your poles to calibrate the height of shot.
5. Use it to set your line!
......Pull the loaded Big Shot to the force you wish to shoot with.
......Casually take careful aim, because you are not struggling to hold the rubber bands.
......Squeeze off the shot like you were using a crossbow.
......Watch with delight as the throwing weight ascends to 80' and goes over the branch you wanted to reach.

For pics and full description of how to build, look at this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=114374

 

[jefflovstrom]

I would just leave him alone! He is an old, hard-a s s, and demand's respect.
Just like my Dad! Arg!
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

He isn't enough older than me to require any special consideration. Besides, it looks to me like he could use the advice.

I watched him setting the line with his little loop & hangy-over-tool; I thought that was a great idea. I have never seen that before. Now all he needs to do is start using some other folks' great ideas. It's not like we are stingy with our opinions or ideas!

AA: if you think you will get a pass from me on doing tree work the old & slow way because of your injuries, guess again. I'll take all your injuries and dance all the way to my grave if you could accept just a couple of mine. Before you take me up on that, just look me (and quite a few others!) up in the arboricultural injuries forum.

(Just for the record, I'm pretty darned slow in a tree too, but that doesn't keep me from learning better, easier ways.)

 

[the Aerialist]

Following Up on the Follow through ...

... Ok. I understand now, and that makes perfect sense... It's the follow-through that gets takes you out... Success has so much to do with the follow-through...

So true, and with most things, the ones you mentioned and most other endeavors as well. Sales is about follow up and follow through. Lose those and you lose sales.

Here a pretty good video of Thomas, the inventor and manufacture putting one through it's paces. He's using it in a BigShot, which is how I'd imagine you'd want to use it.

This is an older video, when it was called the "Treepedo" they had to change the name to "RopeArmour" because the original name was causing them export problems to Europe and Australia. I call it the rope rocket 'cause it looks like an RPG on the end of my rope gun. I won't be going through airports with that rig, They'd probably soot me before I could whip out my TSA ID.

PM me TM and I'll get a RopeArmour to you so you can try it out. I'm really interested in your take on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyEkX29wBls&NR=1

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm not asking for a freebie, but I do want to try it out. I'll spend the money. It may be more of a vote of support for effort involved in developing and bringing this to market. Not a straight, level, obstacle-free path.

I will look for any advantage. Right now, the only part of ropesetting that eludes me is nailing the shot or throw on the first try. This is my only hurdle to overcome, and this has a number of factors, mainly aim.


I wanted to add one more detail about line throwing and follow-through.
In golf or baseball, your follow through is a continuation of the arc of the swing, the club or bat ends up behind you.

In tossing, the shotbag is doing a slight arc in the low, early part of its swing, but quickly straightens out as the vector goes from a curve to a line.

Early in my struggle to get this right, my arm would also curve. I found that if my swinging arm created a curved arc in it;s travel, that the bag needed to be released at an exact place in the arm's arc that coincided exactly with the right place in the arc of the throwbag. In other words, both the arc of the arm and the arc of the bag needed to meet at and exact point, AND the bag needed to be released at that point. Three actions needing to be perfectly synched for a perfect throw. My success was low and frustration was high.

Here's where things changed for the better: The follow-through of the throwing arm changed. Your arm is not a bat or a golf club, and you're not whacking something. The mechanics are a completely different animal. It's a swing and a release, not a swing and a whack.

Now, the early part of the throw is an arc at the beginning, just as is the bag itself, but as the arm is raised, straighten the travel of your hand in exact line of where you want the bag to go. Release, follow through and take note of where your hand is at the end of the toss. It should be pointing directly at your target.

Throwing is so much about nuance, the tiniest of details having so much effect on your accuracy. If you can eliminate some of what's being done wrong, a lot more of what you're doing becomes right. I spent years realizing this. Hopefully many of you can boil it down to hours.


Of course, I'm not talking to the guys who are draining throws consistently.
I'm sharing with the guys who are still finding frustration in what they KNOW should be a very simple process.

 

[ckliff]

Practice on the driveway. Just toss the bag into a 5 gallon bucket. Work up to longer distances. This helps your muscles & coordination "learn" the correct follow through technique.

 

[the Aerialist]

No money needed ...

I'm not asking for a freebie, but I do want to try it out....

Just a quick note, I see I have a PM ~ if that's you I'll work out the details.

I was given one to "test to destruction" while adapting to with my Rope Gun, I'll send you that one, just send it back if you don't replace your shot bag with it.