Concrete in trees

[City climber]

An easy day gone bad. was 2 in the afternoon all I had left to do was drop a 14' stick and go home put notch in no problem.started backcut 2 hours later stick was down. who ever said it was ok to put cement in trees. had to be put in from a ladder was about 6-7' of it . no obvious cavities .

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Those are the times it is nice to be on the clock. Or was this one of them sidejobs you city boys are famous for?

I've had a few where you need to ge a sledge in to bust the concrete before cutting. One had 4 ft of cement and several peices of theraded rod, not visable from the gorund.

There was no way to cut the 15 feet out and drop it and no way to drop the stick. We told the guy we would finnish as T&M if we got a scaffold set up and took it apart in little peices. never heard any thing more on that.

 

[Menchhofer]

Exactly one reason for a signed contract before begining stating "any foreign material found within (including cement and rocks) which involves increased labor and equipment costs, shall constitute an additional charge including time, material, and equipment costs".

We have run across this problem on many occassions and lost valuable time due to concrete/cement.

One time we even had to grind a trunk 3 ft in diameter and over 16 ft long into pcs due to cement in the interior.

 

[SilverBlue]

Lucky the chain found the filler before the chipper blades did.

Menchhofer, that’s a good idea but how do you set the additional charge to protect yourself and the customer? While it’s good to recover certain costs, at what point would one draw the line?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I know a few guys with twosided contracts, the backs have the fine print with a front initial box stateing "I have read and understand..."

Usualy the verbiage will; ahve the gist of stopping and contacting the client to discuss cost and how much the over run may cost, where to set over run limit and cease work and leave as is.

When you get that type of contract, you need to get a lawyer to read it and reduce the amount of wiggle room available for a customer to squirm out of the contract.

I remember a few years back a fellow on the west coast had "and clean up all debris" in the contract, so the client made him clean several years of pine needles out of the gutters prior to making payment. He changed the statement to "remove all debrise generated by our work" after that.

 

[Menchhofer]

Everyone I am sure has an hourly rate in mind when estimating a paticular tree. That rate would simply apply to however long it would take to either chip the appropriate pcs or haul them to the landfill.

Equipment costs would be calculated...for instance....chain sharpening costs/replacement/grinder teeth/grinder time/landfill fee. The extra cost would simply become an additional estimate minus the time you would have had to normally finish the work.

I agree with the wording, it must be exact or people will take advantage of you.

 

[SilverBlue]

I am thinking that if an extra charge were given in an instance of equipment damage, what implications would it have for future work? Would that customer badmouth you to others on the street?

In my experience though, when I experience unexpected damage I mention it to the customer and they typically agree to pay a little extra within reason -that is those who can afford to do so. No backs against the wall or arms twisted, makes the customer feel better as well.

How about offering an optional damage waver fee? Each customer has the opportunity to pay a small ‘insurance’ fee of a few bucks and the save the money for any eventual equipment damage. That way the load of a possible high bill is reduced and spread between all customers.

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by SilverBlue

How about offering an optional damage waver fee? Each customer has the opportunity to pay a small ‘insurance’ fee of a few bucks and the save the money for any eventual equipment damage.

I think this is a crappy idea. The other day I went to rent a DVD, the lady asked me if I wanted video coverage. 25 cents and if the DVD is ruined, I don't pay. If this becomes popular, insurance will be popping up everywhere!

Clerk: "Would you like paper or plastic?"
Customer: "Plastic, please...save the trees."
Clerk: "Would you like the optional Bag Breakage Coverage policy?"
Customer: "Huh?"
Clerk: "Yes sir. It costs 3 cents per bag, and if your grocery bag breaks on the way to your car, we'll replace any damaged items free of charge."
Customer: "Yes, I'll have that, and fill those bags full!"

I think it's a silly idea. Why not offer "In case we drop a log on your house, car, or kid Policy?"

love
nick

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
I think it's a silly idea. Why not offer "In case we drop a log on your house, car, or kid Policy?"

love
nick

That gets covered in the "We are fully insured" part of the conversation.

I have a buddy who ahsked that when he was told of the price a low baller gave to a prospective customer. the answer to "is he insured?" was "Not yet." "So you are being asked to accept the risk that he breaks something for a few hundred less! We have 1,000,000 in coverage for this specific type of work."

We are proffesionals, we offer a fairand honest assessment of the work that visible. If a carpenter runs into structural defects in a renovation, he will not absorb the cost of fixing them. Why should we do so if we run into obscured metal or cement? If the cost over runs are fair and reasonable then most people will not cry gouging. They understand that saws cannot cut through rock.

One thing that I have done on removals that required a low stump (Never say flush some will see 1mm above grade and whine) and trade the wrecked chain for capping off the stump in cases of rocks wncapsualted in the flair.

 

[SilverBlue]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
I think this is a crappy idea. The other day I went to rent a DVD, the lady asked me if I wanted video coverage. 25 cents and if the DVD is ruined, I don't pay. If this becomes popular, insurance will be popping up everywhere!

Clerk: "Would you like paper or plastic?"
Customer: "Plastic, please...save the trees."
Clerk: "Would you like the optional Bag Breakage Coverage policy?"
Customer: "Huh?"
Clerk: "Yes sir. It costs 3 cents per bag, and if your grocery bag breaks on the way to your car, we'll replace any damaged items free of charge."
Customer: "Yes, I'll have that, and fill those bags full!"

I think it's a silly idea. Why not offer "In case we drop a log on your house, car, or kid Policy?"

love
nick

Thanks for the camp fire story Nick,
What would you prefer to do when an unforeseen object damages your equipment?
Absorb the cost?
Charge the customer?
Build the cost into future tree job estimates?
What’s fair to you?

 

[NickfromWI]

Charge it to the customer.

I say charge the customer, but tell them before hand that if you find something that they didn't tell you, you can't stick to the original contract. Other customers shouldn't have to pay for it.

love
nick

PS many more camp fire stories are available, judging by all the free firewood we got floating around here!