Cover pic on new WesSpur catalog

[Sunrise Guy]

OK, what the :censored: is "Negative Blocking? Is that "negative" as in, "don't do it this way?" According to the blurb, inside, about the cover shot, the guy is demonstrating that technique. All I see is a guy who doesn't know how to position his rope and lanyard relative to a block. He's tied in below the block. Yeah, great fun if anything goes wrong and he needs to bail, quickly. Never mind that both his rope and lanyard may be pinched tightly by the block's sling.

In reading further, on the back cover, the guy in the photo is from an organization that teaches safety on the job, so I guess Negative Blocking is an incorrect procedure. However, I doubt that many will even bother reading up on this shot and so may use the incorrect tie-ins shown otj. Bad move to use this photo, in my opinion.

 

[treemandan]

OK, what the :censored: is "Negative Blocking? Is that "negative" as in, "don't do it this way?" According to the blurb, inside, about the cover shot, the guy is demonstrating that technique. All I see is a guy who doesn't know how to position his rope and lanyard relative to a block. He's tied in below the block. Yeah, great fun if anything goes wrong and he needs to bail, quickly. Never mind that both his rope and lanyard may be pinched tightly by the block's sling.

In reading further, on the back cover, the guy in the photo is from an organization that teaches safety on the job, so I guess Negative Blocking is an incorrect procedure. However, I doubt that many will even bother reading up on this shot and so may use the incorrect tie-ins shown otj. Bad move to use this photo, in my opinion.

I would assume its when you have the block below the wood instead of above?

I keep my ropes under the pulley, tucked up nice a safe, I could bail if I wanted to , for the 3 seconds it takes to clear the lines I don't mind waiting. Where am I gonna go? Wawa?



I don't think its right or wrong where you put your ropes, just a matter of prefrence. Its pretty dangerous either way huh?

 

[D Mc]

I don't think its right or wrong where you put your ropes, just a matter of prefrence. Its pretty dangerous either way huh?

This statement is almost right. There are pros and cons to the different settings. Though in this particular picture I would be getting out my red marker pen and circling the close proximity of his climbing line to the block.

If the climbing line gets pressed with the lowering line and the lowering line is let run with a heavy piece, the climbing line could melt through or almost through very quickly. This will not be visible to the climber. This is extremely dangerous and not necessary.

If anything is to be close to the block and lowering line, it should be the cable core. The climbing line should always be well clear of these forces.

On heavy wood where you have had to do the math on rigging forces to determine if your gear is up to snuff, my attachments are always above the rigging point. I have seen rigging stripped out of trees and you really do not want your attachments any where involved in that action. If you are high up on a wobbly spar and you are more concerned about the jerk and flip, it makes sense to have one of your attachments below the rigging to prevent flip off. Assessing the different scenarios is part of our job.

Dave

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Nicely said

 

[Sunrise Guy]

All rigging books I've read clearly point out that your tie-ins are to be above the block, including Donzelli's (RIP). As pointed out, not only do you risk getting stuck in a bad situation by a pinched rope, but if the block slips and heads to ground, you're going with it. If some guys from that organization of "experts," who were involved in that shot, are around. please weigh in.

 

[murphy4trees]

NO Way..
If you are concerned about bailing then the climbing line gets girthed right under the sling, where the block will be below it when it gets the load.. no way that the block can hurt the line and no way to loose the line off the top when the tree oscillates..

Keeping the block as close to the cut as possible reduces shock loads... Can't do that if your life line and lanyard are there...

believe that is the system Chisholm was teaching in 2002..

 

[Sunrise Guy]

NO Way..
If you are concerned about bailing then the climbing line gets girthed right under the sling, where the block will be below it when it gets the load.. no way that the block can hurt the line and no way to loose the line off the top when the tree oscillates..

Keeping the block as close to the cut as possible reduces shock loads... Can't do that if your life line and lanyard are there...

believe that is the system Chisholm was teaching in 2002..

Well, way. Again, at least as most rigging texts are concerned. I've always tied in above my block's sling and never had problems, but if doing the opposite works for you, then so be it. You have years of experience doing it your way, Murph, and it obviously works for you. Cool.

I can see this has potential for a "No way/Yes way" run into the ground thread, so I'm outta here.

 

[riglet]

When rigging in that manner, a negative block angle is in place. a negative line angle is being created.
If you look closely, an AFC is being used by the climber, no danger (if it exists) of rope being "trapped".

 

[rngrchad]

That is identical to how I rig down pieces. Am I doing it wrong?!

 

[riglet]

No.

 

[Dadatwins]

Most magazine covers will put the picture the editors think will capture the purchaser, they are not looking for proper procedure or practice. I am of the opinion that the climber tie in on a spar should be above the block.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I'll be above the block if you need me.

 

[D Mc]

If you look closely, an AFC is being used by the climber, no danger (if it exists) of rope being "trapped".

Wow, good eyes. I did look closer and you are right that he is using an AFC. Which when used like this will prevent lock down of the rope, but still will not remove the danger of friction-caused damage which could have the same unpleasant results when the climber tried to use it under full weight.

As long as we are picking on this poor guy, who probably had no say on this photo being used, when a piece is in mid-fall I don't want to be distracted by clipping my saw in but focused on the developing dynamics. Clipping the saw in should have been accomplished in the moments before the fall. You should be focusing your attention on the fall and catch so that you may respond appropriately if the situation changes.

Dave

 

[pdqdl]

I hate to be the dummy here, but what is an AFC?

In fact, I hate to be the dummy anywhere. I guess that's why I ask so many questions.

 

[pdqdl]

When rigging in that manner, a negative block angle is in place. a negative line angle is being created.
If you look closely, an AFC is being used by the climber, no danger (if it exists) of rope being "trapped".

I am afraid I don't understand.

In typical geometry questions, positive rotation angle is counterclockwise, and negative is clockwise. Positive and negative angles have little meaning in that context, because the "angle" changes rotation if viewed from the other side of the tree.

If "negative" refers to angle down from the horizontal plane or the vertical, it is a pointless comment, since every log I ever cut off fell down, instead of up.

 

[D Mc]

I hate to be the dummy here, but what is an AFC?

In fact, I hate to be the dummy anywhere. I guess that's why I ask so many questions.

LOL Asking questions is good. AFC = Adjustable false crotch

Dave