Crain Work-injury 03/20/03- NC

[Froggy]

Crain Work

I've been debating on where to put this post. I decided to put it here, but if JP thinks it should go else where then cool. Today we used a different crain guy then we usually use, but the guy is the boss of the crain company. So you'd think he'd know what he was doing. If you thought that you're wrong. You'll see at the end of this post. The tree was a BIG maple with multaple leaders. Perfect for a crain. He was set up in the other drive way so he could reach the trees we had to do. The one I did was out of reach with this one leader. So we asked him to put the jib on. Well he refused. Said he would rather do it with out it. Not thinking of me the climber at all. So the plan was to top cut a good chunk of the top and let it hindge over. Thinking that once it hindged over the crain would pic it up clearing me. Well as messed up as this sounds. I did it. Tied in high with my lanyard and about three feet lower with my climbing line incase of a peel. Well started my top cut. As soon as it went I was going to move the saw and hang on. Well it hinged and peeled sucking me into the tree quicker than you could sniff your nose. I thought it was going to brake me in half. It pulled my ribbs,back ,and guts. I yelled it's breacking me in half. My boss had to yell at the guy and let him know it was braking me in half. Then he pulled the piece up. It snapped off BAM right in the head sending me through the air and around the tree. My boss climbed up after me. When he got right below me, I finally came to me senses and said to him I'll finish the tree. He put a sling around the tree and helped me tie in and I hit the ground and took a rest. I ended up with bruised ribbs,sore back, and my guts are sore. Also busted the gas tank on 357xp. I wanted to kick this guys a@@, but I kept my composure and let my boss handle it. Needless to say he'll not be working with us again. To prevent all this all the crain guy had to do is take ten min. and put the jib on. This is a result os laziness on the crains part. I bet he'd thought different if he was out ther instead of me . That jib would have been slapped right on there!!Anyone ever had something so messed up happen? Hope someone can put all this mess together and share a simmilar story.
Climb hard and hit the ground running,BB

 

[Froggy]

Reply

I have done a few crain removals, but I agree a notch would have worked. The point of the top cut a hindge was to let the piece hindge over towards the crain slowley. A notch would have done this also, but you would have used a allagators notch. With two angled cuts so the piece would have had the momentem forward. Good call. I think the cut would have worked if the crain would have come through on his end. The peel would have been there, but not so extream. Thanks,BB

 

[Tim Gardner]

I am glad to hear you are O.K. That must have been pretty scarry.

 

[TREETX]

When working with a crane partner or a ground guy, you BOTH need to know how the wood is going to separate and where it is going to go. Where the climber is going to go.

Leave the "I think" out of it try to make more "I know..." situations.

The ground guy I use is great because we both know how a piece is going to separate and where it is going.

He does more than hold the lowering line. You should expect the same from the crane operator. If he doesn't know, you should call the shots.

Glad to hear you are safe

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm glad to hear you are all right.

I'm agree with Brian, that ultimately the responsability is yours for the job to come off safely, you have the saw, you make the cut. There have only been a a handfull of times when I walked away from a bad situation in my years of tree work, I don't regret one of them.

I also agree with Tex, make sure to idiot proof an operation that takes two men, even if the other man is not an idiot.

On a different note, those of you who know my set up, know I attach my lanyard in front, taking my body out of the loop. This set up could have helped you in this case, if I understand what happened correctly.

Great post, thanks.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I agree with all three. Glad you are safe, did you have a doctor check you for internal injuries?

1. Be responsible for yourself, because you have to wake up with the aches and pains.

2. what you described seemed like a "cut and pray" situation. You wont alwaus be 100% sure, because the grain of the wood can sometimes fool you. But a proper knotch will most of the time act as you expect it. Even a couple of curf cuts may have helped you out here, but I rarely let big wood peel. if you want it to go slow, make a fatter hinge.

3. Central connection, as Mike uses, is best for any chance of barbers-chair. I would use a climbing line here in case I need to get out of it.

4. "A few" does not give experiance. The biggest blame lays on your bosses shoulders for allowing this to happen. He should have demanded the jib be installed. You speak well of him, so I figure he's gon over the near disaster a few times in his head.


If your guts ache, get your tail into an emergancy room ASAP! If you cannot work tomorrow you deserve paid time off. (Heck if I had put you in that situation, I would have given it to you!)

I'd like to move this to the I&F forum, but it's up to you BB.

 

[Froggy]

Reply

I've thought about this situation all day. I want to place all the blame on the crane opperator. Because we'd gone over the game plan many times. In reality it is my fault I should have stressed the fact that I wanted to make a knotch in the direction of the pull and a slight under cut above my lanyard in the direction of the pull to prevent peeling all the way to my tie in point. Also I would like to say I felt very comfortable in the tree and capable of doing the job correctly. I've come a long way in a year and a half. There is still so much for me to learn. I don't want anyone to think I'm inexperianced or would be placed in a situation where I don't know what to do. My boss is a very good boss and would do anything to keep me safe. I don't want this situation to lower the confidence that my boss has in me or the confidece that anyone else has in me. I wish I could climb for you guys to show you what point I'm at as a climber. I think some of you might be suprised. I posted this post to tell you all what happened and to get feed back on how to prevent this from happening again. In no shape or form will this accident prevent me from becomming the best all around climber I can be. Please keep the great feed back comming it's the only way I can establish a conclusion to my mistake. With the help of others and the oppenions of others you can see it from a whole different point of view. In no way is this post supose to be negative towards any feed back. You guys seem to be serious arborist. I feel I can learn a lot from all of you. Thanks,BB

 

[lync]

Go to the Doctor

Listen froggy go to the doctor, a simple urine test will tell if you have blood in you urine/possible internal injuries. Ruptured spleens take days to show there effects. The forces that your body took are well beyond what it was built for. be safe not sorry!!
Corey

 

[dbeck]

sometime when we have piece to take that we are concerned won't go the way I have it notched(you know, the one that seems to be standing straight up and looks like it will pinch the saw), we will not hesitate to put a tag line in it also. I don't know if that would have helped out in your case, just something that popped into my while reading this thread.

 

[nod]

Hi Froggy

I had a situation working with a crane seven years ago where the bottom section of the third boom failed, folded to almost 90 degrees with the hook attachment on the end of the cable missed me by approx. 3feet. Two hours later I went into shock and became incredibly aware of my own mortality & fragility especially when "putting your own life into sombody elses hands". I thought the step cut I'd made had crossed over & it was a simple lift to free it (approx. 1600lbs section of timber), I signalled the okay to lift & could see the piece was not moving but before I could signal to stop hell had been let loose. Metal & cable was falling around me, & worst of all I had nowhere to run to! Anyhow, the crane operator told me after that he was lifting 6000lbs when it failed: he had a safe load lift of approx. 2200lbs. My initial reaction was to blame him, he should never have exceeded his safe lift capacity without informing those around him so at least they could get safe. But on the other hand I had an incomplete cut in front of me and was signalling an okay to lift. I've relived that scene hundreds of times since and inside I know that I was in part to blame.

I think that from your description you cannot exclude yourself from blame totally and even if you feel you can it is important to relive those moments over & over to gain insight & expand experience & knowledge. Don't just blame the crane operator because you may miss something very important in the learning curve.

Good luck & climb safe
Nod

 

[murphy4trees]

I think we are all on the same page here and feel a sense of reverence... AS is holy in that it saves lives... So I Am very thankful for this site, this thread and all contributors... There is so much to learn.. Glad to see froggy has come around from blaming the crane op to taking resposibility for his actions and thankful to Rocky for gently pointing him in that direction...
I think its important to make a distinction between blame and resposibility... Blaming others affirms a condition of powerlessness... As long as someone else did it to you, you are powerless to effect change... That is a dead end street. Accepting resonsibility means you realize there are dozens of things you could have done differently to change the outcome. There is power in that.
Mistakes only happen when we don't look at them as opportunities for learning... Early in my career, everytime I made a "mistake", I would think about the feeling I got just before the action or when I was thinking about it... invariably there was a uneasy feeling, sometimes even phyical, a slight pressure on the temples or a queezy feeling in the gut.... By thinking back to before the action, I was able to learn and recognize those feelings... That was my way of honing my intuition. So when those feelings show up now, I pause and rethink the situation...
You have to trust yourself and your own sense of self preservation. You didn't want to do it, but you didn't trust that and instead trusted the crane company owner to make the call, cause you thought he should have the experience.
Crane operators as a rule don't like doing tree jobs.. so the owner takes the easy work and sends someone else to do the dirty work... The guy might have not done a tree job in years... maybe he hasn't even put the jib out in years

The bottom line here in my thinking is DON'T DO ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH. Its your life... there is nothing to prove, and no job worth a trip to the hospital. Rethink the situation until you are comfortable or walk away. I've done my share of cut'n pray, but only when things like a phone line or fence were at stake... Safe climbing to all.

 

[TREETX]

Froggy,

I didn't mean to imply that things have always gone the way I expected. My worst cuts and bruises have been on my shins. I have banged them with some really big wood. I seemed to plan everything safe, thinking protect my head, body, etc but not things below.

I believe you shouldn't do what you are not comfortable with. I also think there are a lot of climbers that should not be so comfortable doing some things that are just dumb luck.

I have done my fair share of cut and pray and my fair share of replacing pickets on fences. I have learned a lot from that.

Too many climbers live by the philosophy that it is better to be lucky than good any day.

Just like defensive driving, IPDE Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute

Too many climbers just execute.

At least the crain didn't hurt yer brain

 

[Tim Gardner]

Daniel, great post! Thank you.

 

[Menchhofer]

Good post, and spelling lesson.

 

[Climbing mike]

crane injury

We were using a crane last year removing a 110 ft pine that was sticking out through some 50 ft oak trees.The crane lifted me to the tree got me to my tie end point. I gave the call to stop, he stopped, I looked down and the only thing I could see on the 35 ton crane was the top have of the boom sticking out from the oak trees, I could see no part of the crane body, so I know he could not see me. I pulled to the tree to tie in, I strapped the lanyard around the tree then was ready to untie from the crane. The next thing i know was the crane was going up but I was straped to the tree and tied to the crane . It got so tight so fast all I could do is scream DOWN!!!. He stopped and went down. I was in a lot of pain it pulled me so tight that I could not breathe, I had major bruises between me legs from my leg straps on my saddle. When I asked him what happened he said he heard a up call. It turn out the house behind the crane had a guy getting his dog to jump up in the truck. The crane guy siad he would have never knew I was caught untill he saw red rain, My helpers heard me yell down and got him to stop. I now use a two way radio when working with a crane that can not see me. I still use the same crane guy I just dont take anything for granted. Just remember live and learn and knowledge is life.


Mike

 

[treeman82]

Daniel-

Ken Palmer was talking about what you speak of. Last week when I was at the Arbormaster training, he was talking about the pine tree fatality. I forget the guy's name who died Peter? Well apparently when the ground guy told the climber to hang the top of the lightning struck pine... Peter? was up there for 20 minutes before he started the chain saw. In the pictures that Ken had, Peter? had taken off his belly line as the tree started to fall with him in it Really not nice stuff to think about. Ken said though that after the guy got killed, the company cut down a couple hedges and brought in a bucket truck to finish the tree. If only they had done that in the first place.

 

[lhampton]

We don't use cranes very often, most of those jobs have been blind picks. We have used two way radios and mobile phones with head sets, but we also always have someone positioned visible to both the operator and the climber to relay signals.

I've sat in trees, truck roofs, and neighbors roofs to get a good position with line of sight to both, but we don't want to rely totaly on one means of communication.

Louie Hampton

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The short version of what happened to Dr. Pete is that the force of the top pushing on the spar as it left caused the weak spot to fail.

If you can picture it the top goes forward, the top section of the spar goes back and keeps on going. Dr. Donzelli ended up on the bottom of the pile.

I never met him but know several people who concidered him a freind. Everyone was in a daze for a long time. He was so smart, so careful, how could it happen to him? Even the weak point is said to be listed in the meticulouse notes he kept. He cut the top higher then originaly intended because of this.

From what I have heard it was not a hollow, but a crack or fissure.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

TOCT did a crane demo (Norm Hall and Don Ropollo) where they had a clever "failsafe way of tieing into a clevis mounted on a ball and a friction saver.

I nolonger have Don's email, so maybe Tim W. could get us a picture of that setup?

BTW when this thread stops getting posts to it for a few days, I'll move it to I&F.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Here is Tim W's responce to a request for details on his freind, Dr. Peter Donzelli's accident;

Thanks John,

We are talking of writing up the details of Pete's accident and running it in TCI and Arborist News. I don't want to get into it on the board just yet.

TMW