Crazy way to apply Tordon

[pdqdl]

I have a job that involves removing all the underbrush and trees in an area, but I have always found that treating each stump is slow, impractical, and always misses many of the small stumps. I am going to try something new, I'll keep you guys posted as to how well it works, and if there are any problems.

We are going to treat each stump when we cut it...using the chainsaw as an applicator. I have mixed 16oz of Tordon 22k with about 8oz of Dawn detergent soap, then stirred it into a one gallon jug and filled the balance with bar oil. Two quarts per acre is the labeled (maximum) application rate for Tordon 22k, and it does not prohibit oil mixtures nor does it specify any application technique. So...I figure we are not breaking any rules with the EPA or the State regulations.

It makes a very nice emulsion that does not separate, and has a thick texture that feels about like cold bar oil, although it definitely is not sticky like cold bar oil. We will add some marker dye to the first oil tank of this mixture, just to see how far the oil is getting spread, and what the stump looks like when we are done. Whoever is running the saw may end up looking like a smurf.

The marker dye will also reveal how badly the operator gets splattered with the aerosol mixture, and how far off target we end up spreading the blue goo. Don't worry, the area being treated is ideally suited for this experiment, and the regrowth of all the plants is going to be compared to another area that was cleared but not treated.

I can envision creating a blue fog that coats everything, perhaps plugging up the oiling mechanism, inadequate lubrication and the chain seizing onto the bar rails. We might get poor control due to inadequate application, or...it might work great, without a single stump ever getting missed again. If it works well, I don't plan on using marker dye in all the mixture. The marker dye will ensure that we know how badly the operator is getting exposed.
Has anyone else ever heard of this or tried it out?

Your comments are welcome, but please don't be "anti-herbicide" on this thread. Sometimes you just don't want the brush to come back, and Tordon (Picloram ai) is a great way to do it.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I thought you were gonna say that you drank it then pissed all over everything.

I am anti-herbicide but I understand.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

WAIT!!! Doesn't it say right on the bottle that using it in any other way other than described is a federal offense?

 

[pdqdl]

WAIT!!! Doesn't it say right on the bottle that using it in any other way other than described is a federal offense?

Yep. They all do. From the label (see link posted above):

"Special Ground Sprayer Equipment: To control annual and perennial
weed species using special low-volume, minimum drift equipment, such
as the hooded Forage Chemical Mower, apply 1 to 2 pt of Tordon 22K in
total volumes ranging from 1 gal to 5 gal per acre in water alone or as an
oil-water emulsion at a 1:5 and 1:4 oil-to-water ratio for a 1 gal and 5 gal
per acre solutions, respectively."​

So...I think I am just fine on the legal application aspect. My low volume mixture is an oil-water emulsion at about 1:6 (water to oil), but it is definitely ultra low volume application equipment. By the way, I am a certified applicator, so no laws being broken there, either.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Yep. They all do. From the label (see link posted above):

"Special Ground Sprayer Equipment: To control annual and perennial
weed species using special low-volume, minimum drift equipment, such
as the hooded Forage Chemical Mower, apply 1 to 2 pt of Tordon 22K in
total volumes ranging from 1 gal to 5 gal per acre in water alone or as an
oil-water emulsion at a 1:5 and 1:4 oil-to-water ratio for a 1 gal and 5 gal
per acre solutions, respectively."​

So...I think I am just fine on the legal application aspect. My low volume mixture is an oil-water emulsion at about 1:6 (water to oil), but it is definitely ultra low volume application equipment. By the way, I am a certified applicator, so no laws being broken there, either.

Well, uh, um, actually, if you are not applying exactly as prescribed you are in fact BREAKING THE LAW. And you'll probably burn in Hell to boot because as a certified applicator you should know the lingo and comply. Also consider the fact that you already admitted that what you are doing is crazy. I don't think whatever is flying off the bar of a chainsaw could be construed as " minimum drift".

I do also want to point out that when you said that you are a certified applicator and no laws were being broken is what is defined as SUBVERSION, DECEIT and CORRUPTION.

I'm jess sayin dude.

 

[capetrees]

Better go back and re-read the label. Not smart to inhale the "blue fog" and remember, it's flammable.

 

[Zale]

I'm not anti herbicide but your idea is just plain dumb.

 

[pdqdl]

Well, uh, um, actually, if you are not applying exactly as prescribed you are in fact BREAKING THE LAW. And you'll probably burn in Hell to boot because as a certified applicator you should know the lingo and comply. Also consider the fact that you already admitted that what you are doing is crazy. I don't think whatever is flying off the bar of a chainsaw could be construed as " minimum drift".

I do also want to point out that when you said that you are a certified applicator and no laws were being broken is what is defined as SUBVERSION, DECEIT and CORRUPTION.

I'm jess sayin dude.

You apparently know nothing about herbicide applications or about the laws that regulate the use. If you can even tell me how an ultra low volume spray applicator works, I might be more inclined to listen to your comments. I own one, and have been using them for over 20 years. I certainly won't need to search the internet to figure out what is being discussed.

I suggest you spend some time with a dictionary, learning the meaning of subversion, deceit, and corruption. I see no correlation to your remarks and this thread.

 

[pdqdl]

I guess I posted this in the wrong area, to the wrong people. I was hoping to get opinions from folks that might have actually done stump treatments and that realize how hard it is to get good results.

It would be nice if you guys would preface your inflammatory & highly critical comments with your qualifications.

 

[pdqdl]

I'm not anti herbicide but your idea is just plain dumb.

Why dumb? I will be happy to listen to any counterpoints that I have not considered.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

You apparently know nothing about herbicide applications or about the laws that regulate the use. If you can even tell me how an ultra low volume spray applicator works, I might be more inclined to listen to your comments. I own one, and have been using them for over 20 years. I certainly won't need to search the internet to figure out what is being discussed.

I suggest you spend some time with a dictionary, learning the meaning of subversion, deceit, and corruption. I see no correlation to your remarks and this thread.

Oh well, considering the fact I am just ****ing with you I suppose it doesn't matter anyway. Now go back to doing whatever crazy thing you were doing. If nobody has stopped you yet I doubt they will. You are yer own worst enemy or something like that.

 

[pdqdl]

Better go back and re-read the label. Not smart to inhale the "blue fog" and remember, it's flammable.

Most guys don't realize that they are constantly inhaling the fog from bar oil. I learned this a few years ago when I tried out vegetable oil as bar oil. It worked just fine, but the vegetable oil left a fine coating all over the saws, the cylinders, and then hardened into a dust absorbing coating that was difficult to remove. Regular oil doesn't do that. My emulsion will wash off in water.

I am not at all certain how much fog will be created, and inhaling Tordon cannot be a good plan. This is why we are going to be adding the marker dye. That being said, you catch giant volumes of misty air when you spray a hillside with a power sprayer, and respirators are not part of the PPE.

Regarding flammability? Yes, but my mix is less flammable than regular bar oil since it is 1/6th water.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

And I apologize, I meant to say subterfuge but subversion could work also.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Most guys don't realize that they are constantly inhaling the fog from bar oil. I learned this a few years ago when I tried out vegetable oil as bar oil. It worked just fine, but the vegetable oil left a fine coating all over the saws, the cylinders, and then hardened into a dust absorbing coating that was difficult to remove. Regular oil doesn't do that. My emulsion will wash off in water.

Regarding flammability? Yes, but my mix is less flammable than regular bar oil since it is 1/6th water.

You are right about the bar oil. But we are talking about a federally sanctioned chemical used in commercial application. The rules are strict and I don't think you are following them. I also don't think your idea would be very effective, or at least not effective as using it the way its prescribed.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

You apparently know nothing about herbicide applications or about the laws that regulate the use. If you can even tell me how an ultra low volume spray applicator works, I might be more inclined to listen to your comments. I own one, and have been using them for over 20 years. I certainly won't need to search the internet to figure out what is being discussed.

I suggest you spend some time with a dictionary, learning the meaning of subversion, deceit, and corruption. I see no correlation to your remarks and this thread.

You said you were a licensed applicator using a chemical outside the compliance of the prescribed method of application so you were not breaking any laws. That is deceit, corruption and subversion/subterfuge. What? I am wrong?

Is a chainsaw considered a " minimum drift" applicator? Is it a " low volume" applicator? Is it a " hooded" applicator?

I think you are putting more of this stuff in the air than on the desired treatment area.

 

[treesmith]

A small part of me likes the idea, another small part of me thinks it's crazy enough to work.

The rest of me thinks it's complete lunacy.. tell us how you get on!

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[JeffGu]

I believe that no weeds or trees will grow on your chainsaw bar. I think the stumps, however, might just giggle a little bit when they think you're out of earshot.
But yes, let us know the results. Video would be nice.

 

[BC WetCoast]

I don't get to use tordon due to local pesticide use bylaws, but I'm not sure if you are going to get sufficient stump coverage for it to be effective. Most of my saws, even with the oiler maxed out, don't use that much oil. If your material is thick, I just don't think you're going to move enough product.

Secondly, given the amount of stuff that is going to be flung around and that it has a moderate irritant to the eyes, are you going to need to have your saw operators suited up with full face shields?

Wouldn't it be almost as fast and more effective to give each saw operator a spray bottle of product. Cut a stump, spray a stump.

 

[capetrees]

That being said, you catch giant volumes of misty air when you spray a hillside with a power sprayer, and respirators are not part of the PPE.
QUOTE]


You're doing it wrong then.

 

[scheffa]

I'm with treesmith, maybe it's an Aussie thing but I reckon it might just be crazy enough to work, without people trying new and crazy things we would live in the world we do now