Critique cuts

[Polar Bear 4/31]

This was cut for a ROW. I'm a lineman, not an arborist. What did I do wrong?

 

[joesawer]

It is hard to tell from you pics. It looks like you were on the very edge of a significant barber chair.
The hinge is pretty thick, particularly on the close side. If that is decay in the heart, it might call for a thick hinge but the corners (sides of the hinge) are sound looking and look too thick. I don't know what your face cut looked like, but an open face allows the fibers to bend more before forcing them to break (the fibers have to break when the face closes, or the tree stops moving forward or there is a barber chair).

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I agree with Joe on the decay, you can see how the brown tissue broke off vs tearing.

My gut reaction is that you made your face cut too deep, thus causing the tree to start to throw before you finnished with your back cut.

Also it looks like you started the cut and let the dog end cut faster then the tip. Did the tree fall away from you out of the desired line of fall?

I will allways set up the cut, leaving significant holding wood, then finish it off without rocking the bar.

 

[squad143]

I have to agree with JPS, it looks as if your notch is too deep. Hard to tell, but it also looks as if the back cut is a little high.

Better picture on the other thread.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'm kinda guessing that the horizontal cut crossed/bypassed the slanted across the full face (or at least on the heavier side)(edit: or just a kerf cut applied); causing an unintentional dutchman with no relief, for (as is said) an early close in the face. This pushes back against the tree lunging forward; while the tree isn't very steeply commited; bordering on a dangerous BarberChair/ split decision betwixt the 2 confronting/warring forces.

 

[Polar Bear 4/31]

The tree fell in the intended direction, but did stall. I had to finish back cut with the tree leaning in the desired direction, looking back kind of scary.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The stall is the early closing in face; the not steering in another direction is the even closing in face across both sides; or in proportion to the sidelean forces. Riskier because the full close/stop command gives no relief/path of least resistance.

Splitting the close in the faces into 2 separate/ not generic operators can give some steering and/or balancing of the sidelean; and offer a path of relief for less chance of BarberChair; as pre-scribed in Dent's "Professional Timber Falling- A Procedural Approach" /felling bible as a Swing/and or Step Dutchman strategy. Whereby the side that will slap closed the hardest/lean side is closed earlier; to provide a push(closed/loaded) as the opposite side is still pulling(open /loaded); for more tourqued effect.

A risky preposition; who's main lesson is to precisely machine the faces accurately; to not allow any dutchman's; especially across the full face(which offers no relief; only confrontation of forces). this is less true if the Slanted cut bypasses the horizontal; because then the close is across the flexing axis of the fibers; whereby if the close is from the horizontal bypassing; the push is up the non-flexible column of fibers (IMLHO and imagery).

 

[Polar Bear 4/31]

Just two more. Same tree, hinge purposely left thicker on one side in attempt to steer. Tree fell in the desired direction, and landed parrallel to the first. This one was'nt scarey at all.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Tapered is good friend opposing sidelean; smooth fall from no resistance in face from (no) dutch and perhaps given wide face for further travel. All hinge shapes will fold forward under same conditions with same forward resistance/strength; then you are stuck with the given shape and how that can fight the side pulls.

http://www.mytreelessons.com/Drawings%20Archive-Hinge%20Thoughts.htm

Perhaps one of the greatest proofs of all this; is that it works; and it works up in the tree; turned sideways on horizontal sweeps; setting mechanics to target and sidelean (which is down when in tree on horizontal sweep). It also follows the patterns of support that the tree used it's whole life to support it's whole massiveness.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Did you notch a wedge from the front, or just make a cut?

opcorn:

 

[joesawer]

The second tree looks much less risky.
The far side of the face was not straight, this can cause problems with getting the tree to start moving and cause you to miss the intended direction of fall.
Except in advanced falling when you are trying to swing a tree after it has started moving forward, a tapered hinge is not going to do a lot of steering. It is good to compensate for the tension and compression of fibers on a tree with side weight. With a hinge tapered no more than yours the tree sill still mostly be steered by the hinge (which should be as straight as possible).
As TreeSpyder said, the closing face causes the hinge to break. If it closes on on side first, it will cause that side of the hinge to break and cam the tree towards the holding side. This technique should not be used where accuracy is critical.

 

[Polar Bear 4/31]

Yes there was a notch made. It fell then rolled it the side when it hit the ground due to some large limbs. Next time I will take some better photos and show the setup of the cut.
I appreciate everyone for taking the time to help me. Most of the cutting we do is timming, so this is more or less an exception. This site has been an immence help.

 

[pbtree]

I agree with Joe on the decay, you can see how the brown tissue broke off vs tearing.

My gut reaction is that you made your face cut too deep, thus causing the tree to start to throw before you finnished with your back cut.

Also it looks like you started the cut and let the dog end cut faster then the tip. Did the tree fall away from you out of the desired line of fall?

I will allways set up the cut, leaving significant holding wood, then finish it off without rocking the bar.

What he said...

 

[Jonsered2095]

This was cut for a ROW. I'm a lineman, not an arborist. What did I do wrong?

Generally: I think you are notching too deep. I notch 1/4 - 1/3 into the face. If there is decay you will generally have more good wood for your hinge. It also brings the weight of the tree forward on the supporting hinge, and allows more room for your back cut and to insert wedges.

 

[Sprig]

Bit hard to tell from the pic but gut reaction is basically in agreement with the above posts (JPS, J2095, & TS etc), too deep a face cut, possibly too high a back cut, also (by the look of the fiber pull) the angle in the facecut was too small and closed before the hinge could break properly (in conjuction with it being too deep) which would lead me to guess that the lower cut in the face should have had at least 15% slope, as it appears in the second pair of tree pics to be nearly flat I gather the first one was about the same? I have found in my somewhat limited falling experience that this also helps prevent the event of the tree kicking back off the stump. As mentioned above this looks darned close to barber-chair material.
My wee 0.02$ worth fer da morning coffee fix.

& welcome! Take care and work safe All!!

Serge

 

[ShoerFast]

Just another $0.02 worth,,,,,,,

Barber-chair prone trees, hollow wedge from a notch, anything suspect 'widow makers' can get a chain warped around the base to lessen the possibilities of a barber chair retuning your whistle.

Back home, we cut a lot of Basswood, the lumber made the best 'Bee-boxes' (for bee's to make there honey in, cone-honey) Most Basswood is hallow. Most will barber chair if you give them a chance, wrapping a chain never seemed a waste of time after seeing just one let loose, my Grandpa used the term 'widow makers' in his old country language, they have killed a lot of wood-cutters over hundreds of years. .

 

[climb it]

take a game of logging type class. you could have maybe nipped the corners of your face to prevent the peel, smaller more open face and a bore cut if it was a heavy head leaner

 

[Climb_High]

You could also use a plunge cut place wedges in both sides (optional depending on the lean) and then cut the back strap to make sure that the tree doesn't barber chair on you. Already siad above but my vote is for too high of a back cut, there is a lot of pulled fiber but no crack to sugest barber chair. And remember it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt