murphyranch
ArboristSite Lurker
Thanks Bobl I will do some digging around and see where I can find it over here. I appreciate your advice and blow the froth off one for me to ok.
Murph
Murph
CSM adjustment Locking mechanisms
- Thread starter BobL
- Start date
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CS Mill update
More work on the new alaskan mill on the weekend.
Photo 1 shows about 95% of the bits. The outboard end is nearly complete apart from some bolts for the vertical tube clamping mechanism and the lengthwise tube handle and the all thread adjuster.
Photo 2 shows a close up of the bar nose clamp. The two pieces sandwiching the bar are 25mm solid Al pulled together by a high tensile steel bolt. This clamp is not as critical as a standard alaskan because the bar/mill/saw are all firmly attached at the inboard end to the bar bolts. The main purpose of the outboard clamp is to maintain the bar level while cutting.
Photo 3 shows a front view of the outboard bar clamp.
The outboard end can also be rotated sideways if required.
The vertical position is determined/maintained by 2 allthread rods (not shown). The 3 vertical 25 mm Al tubes slide inside 38 mm Al tubes which are welded to the mill cross rail. To stop rattles the difference in diameter between the 25-38 mm tubes is packed by by a pair of snug fit PVC tubes and clamped by the following clamping mechanism.
The 38 mm outer pipes have a tab cut unto them and have a 20x20mm solid Al bar welded to the end of the tap to act as a clamp lever. Bolts pull the lever in such a way as to grab the inner 25 mm tube. Remember this is not the critical height determinant (that is done by the all thread) its just a clamp to reduce rattles.
Photo 4 shows the two clamps at the inboard end. The two bolts shown are tightened on the other side pulling the short square ally bars
Final photo shows the main piece that connects to the CS bar bolts, the two vertical tubes slide inside the two clamping tubes on the mill cross piece - The base plate now has a chunky (50 x 6 mm) curved perpendicular gusset welded onto it.
Clear a mud? Good - that'll give me an excuse to post again when it is complete.
Still to do, allthread adjusters, cranks, finish clamps, attach lengthwise tube handle. Make a short vertical handle (or use a bike handlebar stem), clean up welds, make a couple of guards for the inboard and outboard end and auxillary oiler ie a full weekend at least.
Used in "end on bar nose clamp" mode limits the mill to a max 52" bar length and delivers at least 49" of cut. In the vertical direction the deepest cut possible is ~24" so theoretically a 48" log can be quarter sawn or split. The likelyhood of me needing to do this is VERY small but I don't want to be making another mill in too much of a hurry. [although the strange Aussie bush can do strange things -
] A longer bar length helps when milling trunk bases where even small trees can flare widely at the base, or where bits of branches stick out wider than the regular trunk. Normally these are just hacked off with a CS or couple of mill passes but having a longer bar avoids this - and allows one to mill interesting crotches etc.
I have just purchased a 42" bar and worked out I can get up to 39" of horizontal cut with this setup.
Cheers
More work on the new alaskan mill on the weekend.
Photo 1 shows about 95% of the bits. The outboard end is nearly complete apart from some bolts for the vertical tube clamping mechanism and the lengthwise tube handle and the all thread adjuster.
Photo 2 shows a close up of the bar nose clamp. The two pieces sandwiching the bar are 25mm solid Al pulled together by a high tensile steel bolt. This clamp is not as critical as a standard alaskan because the bar/mill/saw are all firmly attached at the inboard end to the bar bolts. The main purpose of the outboard clamp is to maintain the bar level while cutting.
Photo 3 shows a front view of the outboard bar clamp.
The outboard end can also be rotated sideways if required.
The vertical position is determined/maintained by 2 allthread rods (not shown). The 3 vertical 25 mm Al tubes slide inside 38 mm Al tubes which are welded to the mill cross rail. To stop rattles the difference in diameter between the 25-38 mm tubes is packed by by a pair of snug fit PVC tubes and clamped by the following clamping mechanism.
The 38 mm outer pipes have a tab cut unto them and have a 20x20mm solid Al bar welded to the end of the tap to act as a clamp lever. Bolts pull the lever in such a way as to grab the inner 25 mm tube. Remember this is not the critical height determinant (that is done by the all thread) its just a clamp to reduce rattles.
Photo 4 shows the two clamps at the inboard end. The two bolts shown are tightened on the other side pulling the short square ally bars
Final photo shows the main piece that connects to the CS bar bolts, the two vertical tubes slide inside the two clamping tubes on the mill cross piece - The base plate now has a chunky (50 x 6 mm) curved perpendicular gusset welded onto it.
Clear a mud? Good - that'll give me an excuse to post again when it is complete.
Still to do, allthread adjusters, cranks, finish clamps, attach lengthwise tube handle. Make a short vertical handle (or use a bike handlebar stem), clean up welds, make a couple of guards for the inboard and outboard end and auxillary oiler ie a full weekend at least.
Used in "end on bar nose clamp" mode limits the mill to a max 52" bar length and delivers at least 49" of cut. In the vertical direction the deepest cut possible is ~24" so theoretically a 48" log can be quarter sawn or split. The likelyhood of me needing to do this is VERY small but I don't want to be making another mill in too much of a hurry. [although the strange Aussie bush can do strange things -
] A longer bar length helps when milling trunk bases where even small trees can flare widely at the base, or where bits of branches stick out wider than the regular trunk. Normally these are just hacked off with a CS or couple of mill passes but having a longer bar avoids this - and allows one to mill interesting crotches etc.I have just purchased a 42" bar and worked out I can get up to 39" of horizontal cut with this setup.
Cheers
aggiewoodbutchr
Addicted to ArboristSite
Awesome! Keep the pics commin'!
oldsaw
"Been There, Milled That"
Nice work!!!
Well thought out mill.
Mark
Well thought out mill.
Mark
tribalwind
ArboristSite Member
this one is really interesting thinking.
a very portable logosol/side-running type setup.
nifty!!
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51245&d=1179233777
a very portable logosol/side-running type setup.
nifty!!
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51245&d=1179233777
More pics of the BIL mill (WIP)
I've decided to call the new mill I'm working on the BIL mill after my brother-in-law who did all the ally welding.
First photo shows where it's up to with the 42" bar place to give you an idea of scale. The Al is not all yest cosmetically finished and will undergo some spit and polish once its all done. Not all the bolts and nuts are final and I will change these according to what I have in my bolt drawers, the occasional whim and as needed once I use the mill.
The all thread height adjusters are done and work great.
The allthreads maintain the actual height but to clamp the vertical pipes to the mill to stop the rattles I'm going to try a beefy set of cams (1 2/5" diam with 3/8" bolt).
I know some of you reckon cams won't work but if they fail I will just replace them with 3/8" bolts. The cams are easily adjustable to get serious torque on the locking mechanism and are designed to self lock by going over centre by a couple of poofteenths. They seem to work really well so far but until I try cutting and do a proper vibe test I won't know. The cam seats are made of HDPP and are replaceable and the cams can be easily retensioned by tweaking the big goldy coloured nuts shown here.
If there is going to be a vibe problem it will be with these nuts so I might add a locking nut to these. One problem I still have to fix is the PVC bushes (inside the vertical tube locking mechanism) tend to ride out of their seats and need locking bolts to hold them in place.
More pics in the next post.
I've decided to call the new mill I'm working on the BIL mill after my brother-in-law who did all the ally welding.
First photo shows where it's up to with the 42" bar place to give you an idea of scale. The Al is not all yest cosmetically finished and will undergo some spit and polish once its all done. Not all the bolts and nuts are final and I will change these according to what I have in my bolt drawers, the occasional whim and as needed once I use the mill.
The all thread height adjusters are done and work great.
The allthreads maintain the actual height but to clamp the vertical pipes to the mill to stop the rattles I'm going to try a beefy set of cams (1 2/5" diam with 3/8" bolt).
I know some of you reckon cams won't work but if they fail I will just replace them with 3/8" bolts. The cams are easily adjustable to get serious torque on the locking mechanism and are designed to self lock by going over centre by a couple of poofteenths. They seem to work really well so far but until I try cutting and do a proper vibe test I won't know. The cam seats are made of HDPP and are replaceable and the cams can be easily retensioned by tweaking the big goldy coloured nuts shown here.
If there is going to be a vibe problem it will be with these nuts so I might add a locking nut to these. One problem I still have to fix is the PVC bushes (inside the vertical tube locking mechanism) tend to ride out of their seats and need locking bolts to hold them in place.
More pics in the next post.
BIL mill 2 (WIP)
Here's the outboard end with the single down tube and the same clamping mechanism as the inboard.
The full length ally tube handle that runs down the middle of the mill is locked in place by two supports. To avoid the locking screw marking the ally tube I added a brass locking plate so the locking screw bites into the brass rather than the tube.
I messed around with a couple of different outboard guards made of expanded ally mesh and they just looked clumsy and ugly. I then found a piece of lexan (same stuff as used in MC helmet visors). Its fantastic stuff to work with as it's very flexible, you can can cut it with tin snips, bend it a fair bit even cold and yet it remains quite tough and it's transparent too! So this is what I came up with.
Here's the back view.
I reckon my single tube nose-end-clamp is inherently safer than regular mills as the main part of the clamp is outside the nose bar - which also maximises cut capacity. Of course it only works with hardnoses. I just added this guard to make sure someone doesn't acciedntally stick their finger in the vicinity.
Still to do!
- make the inboard clutch cover.
- Auxilliary Oiler.
- try it out !!
Once I'm happy it works
- loctite all none-adjustable screws
- descratch, spit and polish.
- Take pics
Start on the next one (No, No, No, No, No - not for a while anyway)!
Here's the outboard end with the single down tube and the same clamping mechanism as the inboard.
The full length ally tube handle that runs down the middle of the mill is locked in place by two supports. To avoid the locking screw marking the ally tube I added a brass locking plate so the locking screw bites into the brass rather than the tube.
I messed around with a couple of different outboard guards made of expanded ally mesh and they just looked clumsy and ugly. I then found a piece of lexan (same stuff as used in MC helmet visors). Its fantastic stuff to work with as it's very flexible, you can can cut it with tin snips, bend it a fair bit even cold and yet it remains quite tough and it's transparent too! So this is what I came up with.
Here's the back view.
I reckon my single tube nose-end-clamp is inherently safer than regular mills as the main part of the clamp is outside the nose bar - which also maximises cut capacity. Of course it only works with hardnoses. I just added this guard to make sure someone doesn't acciedntally stick their finger in the vicinity.
Still to do!
- make the inboard clutch cover.
- Auxilliary Oiler.
- try it out !!
Once I'm happy it works
- loctite all none-adjustable screws
- descratch, spit and polish.
- Take pics
Start on the next one (No, No, No, No, No - not for a while anyway)!
woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
Very nice BobL, you obviously put a lot of time into the planning stages of this. I like the cam idea, I use that once in a while on some of my jigs. They are not the easiest to make and set up in your jig, but once you have them dialed in, they work great as they are quick, and you can adjust the amount of pressure. Metal is perhaps the best choice as far as wear, but I have had good results with hard dense wood tightening against hard dense wood. Osage orange works great, as does black locust for cams. Down there you have tons of hard dense "ironwood" types that would work as a cam. Only thing I might do different if I were designing a csm like that would be to try and find a quicker way to raise and lower the bar. Because of the way I mill and use my Granberg csm, I move it up and down frequently, often the full 12-14 inches as I go from slabbing top of log to bottom using same setup without rotating it (saves time that way). But everybody mills a little different here, and that probably isn't a problem for most others.
Nice welding job. Is your brother-in-law going to get some of the spoils from this thing once you start slicing logs?
Nice welding job. Is your brother-in-law going to get some of the spoils from this thing once you start slicing logs?
Thanks woodshop,
Yeah the cams take a while longer to make than I thought. I try to do everything wood/metal wise in my home shop but for those cams I had to resort to using the power hacksaw and lathe at work. Even though it took me about 3 hours to make those cams I figure they will save me a lot of time while milling. Of course I'm not sure if they will work with the chainsaw vibes. If they don't I'll switch back to straight bolts and have plenty of other jigs in mind where I can use them.
Cheers
Yeah the cams take a while longer to make than I thought. I try to do everything wood/metal wise in my home shop but for those cams I had to resort to using the power hacksaw and lathe at work. Even though it took me about 3 hours to make those cams I figure they will save me a lot of time while milling. Of course I'm not sure if they will work with the chainsaw vibes. If they don't I'll switch back to straight bolts and have plenty of other jigs in mind where I can use them.
I also thought the althread/cranks would also be too slow but they are so successful on my small mill I decided to stay with they because of the precision of placement of the bar.
BIL is a real crafstman but unless it's metal, he's not that interested but I will be giving my sister a few wood products starting with a large wooden platter/bread board.
Cheers
dustytools
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thats one very nice looking mill you have there Bob! Great job!
woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just a thought, if the vibes do start that cam backing off, you might keep that handle in place with a little lever that flips up and prevents the cam handle from moving very far. I've used that technique on other handles and levers in past jigs (but not with a cam handle yet).
Also... not to get too fancy, but you can incorporate a split thread box for your all-thread similar to some vices. You flip a lever which opens the thread box (in effect splits the "nut" temporarily) and lets the all-thread move up or down, then flip it back which closes the box and lets the threads operate again. That would be getting a little complicated, but I could see it being done with modest tools. I suppose I would start with an aluminum block maybe inch cubed (OK... say 3cm for you guys) and drill a hole into it, then tap it, then cut it in half and incorporate one of the halves into a lever that opens and closes on the all-thread.
martrix
ArboristSite Operative
Awesome Bob! Looks like you have provision for a longer bar? A 50" bar?
Minus the bar, can you weigh the mill when you have a chance? cheers....greenie incoming.
Minus the bar, can you weigh the mill when you have a chance? cheers....greenie incoming.
Thanks for the feedback guys
Interesting, I've made one before for a 3/4" thread and it worked well. This allthread is only 5/16" so it could be trickier.
RE: Provision for a longer bar. There is just enough room for a 1.35m or 53" or a 52" blade but I'm not planning on that anytime soon.
OK will weigh the mill and post tonight. It feels more awkward than heavy when moving it around but it should be fine on the log.
Ah Ha - you read my mind - It's on the plan - see the picture. I'll only add these if they're needed.
Interesting, I've made one before for a 3/4" thread and it worked well. This allthread is only 5/16" so it could be trickier.
RE: Provision for a longer bar. There is just enough room for a 1.35m or 53" or a 52" blade but I'm not planning on that anytime soon.
OK will weigh the mill and post tonight. It feels more awkward than heavy when moving it around but it should be fine on the log.
Last edited:
Mill update
Busy time at the day job so not much shed time this week or weekend.
The few hours spare I've had, I've been mainly doing cosmetic things like replacing the scummy looking main 10mm galavnized nuts with some shmick looking brass dome nuts. Sanded down the whole thing with 180 then 400 grit and the ran the whole thing past the buff. That grey, and then white ally buffing compound sure does the trick. I could have made it all mirror finish but don't have time.
I've also made a change to the main central cross piece locking mechanisms and added a vertical central handle.
The locking mechanisms were just bolts but are now cams. It's taken quite a long time to make these cams and If I'd known it was going to take this long I would not have bothered although I can now turn out this style of cam out pretty quickly now if I had to.
The handle is an ally bicycle handlebar stem (inverted) with a mountain bike handlebar grip pushed onto it. I tried putting a cam on the allen locking bolt for the handle but at 6mm its pretty hard to get enough pressure to lock tight enough and I've snapped two locking mechanism pins in trying. I have a plan to start with a 10 mm high tensile steel bolt and work from there.
Here's a close up of the cross piece locking cams.
The cam holding force can be adjusted by releasing the cam and turning the dome nuts by hand. When the cam locks into place the dome nuts are very tight. It will be interesting to see if they vibrate loose with the CS operating. If they do I can tweak the cam to lock even harder or just lock the dome nuts down with a spanner - the cam will still work but the adjustment will require a spanner.
Finally heres a close up of the vertical position locking cams all polished up and look fancy.
My wife thinks I'm building a strange piece of surgical equipment and my son says it looks like a "trepanning instrument for giants".
To do:
1) Aux Oil tank - I have all the pieces except the tank. I found a reasonable and cheap ($6) brass air tap, it uses 1/4" BSP fittings, and I have connected that to a real smooth brass needle valve (7/16 UNF). After hunting around for the right taps and dies I couldn't find what I needed so I made my own 1/4" BSP and 7/16" UNF taps from 1/2" bolts and the respective dies.
2) Clutch guard: Still thinking about that.
Cheers
Busy time at the day job so not much shed time this week or weekend.
The few hours spare I've had, I've been mainly doing cosmetic things like replacing the scummy looking main 10mm galavnized nuts with some shmick looking brass dome nuts. Sanded down the whole thing with 180 then 400 grit and the ran the whole thing past the buff. That grey, and then white ally buffing compound sure does the trick. I could have made it all mirror finish but don't have time.
I've also made a change to the main central cross piece locking mechanisms and added a vertical central handle.
The locking mechanisms were just bolts but are now cams. It's taken quite a long time to make these cams and If I'd known it was going to take this long I would not have bothered although I can now turn out this style of cam out pretty quickly now if I had to.
The handle is an ally bicycle handlebar stem (inverted) with a mountain bike handlebar grip pushed onto it. I tried putting a cam on the allen locking bolt for the handle but at 6mm its pretty hard to get enough pressure to lock tight enough and I've snapped two locking mechanism pins in trying. I have a plan to start with a 10 mm high tensile steel bolt and work from there.
Here's a close up of the cross piece locking cams.
The cam holding force can be adjusted by releasing the cam and turning the dome nuts by hand. When the cam locks into place the dome nuts are very tight. It will be interesting to see if they vibrate loose with the CS operating. If they do I can tweak the cam to lock even harder or just lock the dome nuts down with a spanner - the cam will still work but the adjustment will require a spanner.
Finally heres a close up of the vertical position locking cams all polished up and look fancy.
My wife thinks I'm building a strange piece of surgical equipment and my son says it looks like a "trepanning instrument for giants".
To do:
1) Aux Oil tank - I have all the pieces except the tank. I found a reasonable and cheap ($6) brass air tap, it uses 1/4" BSP fittings, and I have connected that to a real smooth brass needle valve (7/16 UNF). After hunting around for the right taps and dies I couldn't find what I needed so I made my own 1/4" BSP and 7/16" UNF taps from 1/2" bolts and the respective dies.
2) Clutch guard: Still thinking about that.
Cheers
dustytools
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nice work Bob! Its almost gonna be a shame to mill with it. LOL.
Nice work Bob! Its almost gonna be a shame to mill with it. LOL.
Nah - can't wait to get get it smothered in sap and sawdust. I'd be doing that now if I had a big enough block of time available. Instead, all I have is an hour here and there when all I can really do is muck about prettying it up.
martrix
ArboristSite Operative
Sweet Bob. Its probably a good thing that you buffing/polishing it as it means all the crap that will get on it will come off easy as with a good pressure washing.
How much longer before you think you can give it a run?opcorn:
How much longer before you think you can give it a run?
opcorn:
Good point!
How much longer before you think you can give it a run?
Good question! As well as the day job, SWMBO has just had surgery on her right hand so muggings here is currently doin' all the household chores and fetching and carrying, taking her mother to the airport, and cooking real food (take away are not allowed!) etc
If her hand recovers and I can sort out the oil tank out this week it could be next weekend ?
Cheers
martrix
ArboristSite Operative
Doh!
Oh well, at least you will be earning some brownie points and a couple of Milling pass'. I'm sure you're doing a fine job of being Mrs Doubtfire.
ps....hope SWMBO heals up well.
woodshop
Addicted to ArboristSite
Beautiful piece of machinery Bob... I'm enjoying seeing this thing evolve. Can't wait to hear how it works with all that "sap and sawdust" you mentioned enters the picture. From the looks of it, I think you have designed and built something that will be very functional. Keep us up to date.
