CSM ... sorta

[qbilder]

I'm seriously kicking around a plan to build a CSM slabber, utilizing a vertical shafted 4-stroke motor. It'll be a 6' bar so I can cut 4-5' slabs. I'm unsure about the power I need. It'll be a framed saw head that rides on a track much the same as a band mill except it'll have a bar & chain instead of a band & wheels. I was thinking 15-20hp should do the trick, but i'm really not sure. Anybody have any ideas? Has anybody seen or operated a mill like this? And if it's a bad idea, then i'm ok with that, too. Don't wanna waste a bunch of time & money building something that won't work.

 

[mtngun]

You just described a Lucas swingmill set up for slabbing. I'm not familiar with the Lucas power/chain speed specs, but some googling should turn up ballpark numbers. Also a lot of Lucas info on that Aussie milling forum. The chains they use are quite a bit different than what we use on CSMs.

 

[qbilder]

Oh cool. I'll check it out. Thanks

 

[Hillbilly3995]

I'm planning on building a similar critter however, I wont likely go over 36" with 48" being max. That said I'll start out with a 12 hp (already have) electric start.
I/C Briggs. That may very well leave me wanting more power. Since the engine is a zero cost item, if its too slow I'll start by souping it up, I expect I can get around 20 ponies out of it- at a trade of probably half its service life, run it till the can melts and then pursue an upgrade if I feel its in the cards.

I'd love to see your setup, Good luck - Hillbilly

 

[splitpost]

found this

reckon this can be improved alot, but might give you some ideashttp://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHAINSAW-MILL-CUT-YOUR-OWN-TIMBER-/120642119247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c16d4a64f

 

[BobL]

16 and 20 HP are the two Lucas Options.

See http://www.lucasmill.com/OurProducts/SlabbingMills/DedicatedSlabbingMill/tabid/274/Default.aspx

 

[Hillbilly3995]

reckon this can be improved alot, but might give you some ideashttp://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHAINSAW-MILL-CUT-YOUR-OWN-TIMBER-/120642119247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c16d4a64f

Wow, interesting err uh tool, That thing reminds me of the old Rotary engines they used on airplanes whereas the crankshaft was fixed and the jugs spun around it. I mean it got the job done but in my mind I can see some old engineer scratching his head and looking at one of those things and thinking "there MUST be a better way" ....

Thanks, Hillbilly

 

[DaltonPaull]

That ebay thing is interesting.... It would be fun to make one like that with a large engine and 10 or so bars on it so you could cut an entire log in one pass.

 

[splitpost]

That ebay thing is interesting.... It would be fun to make one like that with a large engine and 10 or so bars on it so you could cut an entire log in one pass.

Now that would be one deadly set up,but would be good to see

 

[qbilder]

That ebay thing is interesting.... It would be fun to make one like that with a large engine and 10 or so bars on it so you could cut an entire log in one pass.

Those are called gang saws, usually bands not bars & chains. High production, expensive stuff.

 

[Hillbilly3995]

Now that would be one deadly set up,but would be good to see

Ya, I think it would be safer to crawl into a box full of badgers wearing a suit made of honey.

 

[splitpost]

Ya, I think it would be safer to crawl into a box full of badgers wearing a suit made of honey.

LMAO:hmm3grin2orange:

 

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[imagineero]

c'mon splitpost.... you ought to know better than to quote spammers ;-) It just makes life tougher all round. But I'm sure the spammer is thankful!

20 ponies sounds about right. You will need more horses for a slower turning 4stroke than you would for a high revving 2 stroke. If I were going to go to the trouble of building like this though, I'd bypass CSM altogether and go straight to bandmill. It isnt likely to cost much more to build, but will be way cheaper and faster to operate as well as giving a better cut. You could nearly get self-drive out of 20 ponies on a bandmill. It takes a lot less petrol to push a bandsaw blade through a log than a chainsaw bar, and I cant see the cost of petrol going down. Bandsaw blades are probably cheaper than 6'bars and chains too... unless you already have the 6' bar.

Shaun

 

[gemniii]

If I were going to go to the trouble of building like this though, I'd bypass CSM altogether and go straight to bandmill. It isnt likely to cost much more to build, but will be way cheaper and faster to operate as well as giving a better cut. You could nearly get self-drive out of 20 ponies on a bandmill. It takes a lot less petrol to push a bandsaw blade through a log than a chainsaw bar, and I cant see the cost of petrol going down. Bandsaw blades are probably cheaper than 6'bars and chains too... unless you already have the 6' bar.

Shaun

Shaun - do you have any specs for BSMs, or kits that can cut 60" wood? I figure a CSM w/ a 6' bar could cut 60" plus.

As far as blade vs B/C cost - quick look at prices - a 6' Carlton bar lists for $480 and I'd estimate 1 chain would be about $45. I'd expect 1 chain to last longer than a BSM blade.

I couldn't quickly find a price for BSM blades to do a 72" log, but a box of 10 woodmizer 208" long runs $375, so that's about $37.50/blade.

 

[imagineero]

Shaun - do you have any specs for BSMs, or kits that can cut 60" wood? I figure a CSM w/ a 6' bar would could cut 60" plus.

As far as blade vs B/C cost - quick look at prices - a 6' Carlton bar lists for $480 and I'd estimate 1 chain would be about $45. I'd expect 1 chain to last longer than a BSM blade.

I couldn't quickly find a price for BSM blades to do a 72" log, but a box of 10 woodmizer 208" long runs $375, so that's about $37.50/blade.

After a quick flick through some catalogues I'd like to retract my previous statement ;-)

BSM's in the 6' range seem to be running more in the 100~150 pony area which surprises me. A lot of good photos and info here;

http://www.woodproductsmachinery.co...ew_records=1&sb=4&so=ascend&CATEGORY=BANDMILL

These are more commercially oriented machines though, I think you could get away with a lot less HP on a 6' BSM that you're going to push by hand. A CSM is obviously going to need more power and petrol for the same rate of travel as a BSM, which means to me that a 20pony 6'CSM is going to be super slow and wasteful. With a BSM, you'd need a pretty wide blade to keep it flat, and a lot of wheel tension. The frame could be made out of used I beam if you are handy. I think you'd have some trouble keeping a 6' CSM bar flat all the same.

These sorts of projects always take a lot more time and money than you think they will. Actually keeping track of hours and costs is horrifying. I think overall, the cost of materials+time+operating costs+operating efficiency+quality of end product+saleability of machine when finished using it still points to a BSM being a winner. Though having said that, buying a used BSM at that range will still probably work out to be a better net financial decision once used and sold....

Mind you, if you happen to have a spare free 20hp motor, that could really tip the balance of the whole equation :hmm3grin2orange:

Shaun

 

[BobL]

Shaun - do you have any specs for BSMs, or kits that can cut 60" wood? I figure a CSM w/ a 6' bar would could cut 60" plus.

As far as blade vs B/C cost - quick look at prices - a 6' Carlton bar lists for $480 and I'd estimate 1 chain would be about $45. I'd expect 1 chain to last longer than a BSM blade.

I couldn't quickly find a price for BSM blades to do a 72" log, but a box of 10 woodmizer 208" long runs $375, so that's about $37.50/blade.

If you want to mill 6' wide with a band saw that's an BIG industrial Bandsaw with a 200+ HP motor and 6" wide blade. This one is going free in BC but it only has a 48" wide cut.

 

[imagineero]

that's one route to go down.

There are a lot of similar industrial grade machines that run 150~200hp motors, have all the bells and whistles and 6"~12" wide blades. These machines can be had for cheap in the right place and time, have depreciated about as far as they ever will, and no surprises that they will get through an incredible workload in a day. Possibly a months worth of CSMing? You will very likely recover the full cost of the machine once you are done with it, and have saved yourself a lot of time and fuel. You could also possibly recover some of the money invested by milling for people around you.

It all comes do what you need to get done. If you are milling lumber, then you can probably go down the quartersaw path and save a lot of money on the size of the mill you would need at the expense of quartering the log. If you want big square slabs then you could square the log up and again reduce the time and expense of a bigger mill. If you want big live edge slabs and have small volume then you will probably do well to have someone else mill it for you.

If you have a very small volume of live edge slabs in a remote area, then many forget the stationary motor and go alaskan. Especially if you have a lot of spare time and money. BOBL has already talked a lot in past about material handling difficulties at that size.

If on the other hand, the end result and cost arent that important and time and money spent on it is therapy, then building something sounds pretty cool.

Shaun

 

[qbilder]

All i'd be using it for would be wide live edge slabs, and only on occasion. A 20hp motor new can be had for $1000, or out of a beat up old riding mower for next to nothing. I wouldn't have room for a giant BSM, or the amount of work to justify it.

The saw i'm interested in building would be similar to the Dolmar saw on the Talarico Hardwoods website. It's just a simple frame with a big bar & chain. That one looks to have a hydraulic motor, though, which makes sense for RPM & torque purposes.

 

[TSRuff]

I think you'd have some trouble keeping a 6' CSM bar flat all the same.

These sorts of projects always take a lot more time and money than you think they will.

I've been experimenting with my 6' bar to see how I can get around the bar sag issue (insert joke here) as when I mount that on the mill I get about 1/4" droop (insert joke here as well). Right now I'm trying to fabricate something similar to what BobL has done with an independant nose for chain tension, but with another tensioner to "pull" the bar tight and prevent it from sagging.

I figure in this manner I can put as much tension on the actual bar as I want, then tension the chain separately. I have found that it takes a significant amount of tension to take the sag out, and will likely have to bulk up other components of the mill to handle the strain, but that it can be done.

And I completely agree with the last statement. My "$200" mill is going to end up being 2-3x more expensive than planned. Unless of course if you ask my wife, because as far as she knows I am on-budget and schedule.