Cursed 038...

[Ibeatgodzilla]

Hello all,

Though newly signed up to the forums I have been a frequent visitor to this site, reading up other posts with valuable advice for fixing problems and getting recommendations. But now I'm stumped.

I seem to have bad luck with chainsaws. I've got four, none of which work reliably. An ancient Danarm 110cc which needs restoring, a much more modern looking but only couple of years newer Echo CS-451VL which has a very strange problem of never running twice in a row and seemingly wanting different carb adjustment setting each time I use it - but when it does work it's not very pleasant so that's just for static display now; a Stihl 023 which has a tendency to overheat, stall, and the oily grime always seems rather black for some reason - this is the most reliable of the four - and an 038 AV Super Farm Boss which is the main issue and subject of this thread.

After researching which saw to buy, trading off power vs budget and thinking 'how big a saw do I really need?' I came to the conclusion that something this size would do good, and nearly all forum posts universally hailed the 038 as one of the best saws Stihl ever made, preferring it to the 039 and ms390. So I bought one.

'Made in West Germany' shows the age, and buying second hand is always a gamble - but with only a little minor adjustment of carb screws, off it went... and boy does that saw cut nicely! It went through big antique oak beams like a hot knife through butter.
Then one day it stalled, then stalled again, then simply wouldn't start no matter what. Further inspection revealed a simple worn out barrel and piston, I guess it had had a lot of abuse in its 25-30 years of use.
So while I was at it, I rebuilt the entire thing - new bearing, oil seals, spark plug, piston, barrel, fuel line, impulse line, thorough clean out, carburettor thoroughly cleaned and whole rebuild kit fitted, exhaust wasn't coked up but cleaned anyway... Basically not a lot left that I could have done. I didn't change the ignition as it was working fine, good strong spark.
Moment of truth: it started! minor tweaking to the carb again but ran fine and idled well for a few minutes. Tested it at home a couple of days later, good as new, cut as it should, perfect! Felt rather satisfied with myself.
A few days later now having faith again I brought it to a job, expecting it to play up now that I needed it for work - but no, it was perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Next day: wouldn't start. At all. no matter what. (And yes, there is fuel in it!)
Many choice words were thrown out, and I am utterly frustrated at why it's not working again, already, so soon after being nearly entirely renewed. I simply don't understand what could be the problem, what could break so soon.

... Any ideas? Or am I just doomed to forever have bad luck wit all of my saws? I never get any of this aggro with brush cutters and hedge trimmers and the like.

- Dan

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Check all aspects of the choke plate in the air filter. Will it start with a prime?

 

[gunnusmc03]

Sounds like you replaced almost everything, but did you take the time to vacuum/pressure test to verify you fixed all the leaks before running it?

 

[HarleyT]

In your overhaul, you may have not torqued the flywheel nut enough, and it sheared the key.

 

[Gypo Logger]

John, are you suggesting an impact gun for flywheels and the clutch?

 

[lone wolf]

John, are you suggesting an impact gun for flywheels and the clutch?

That's what I always use but a 3/8 gun not 1/2 . As long as you spin it the right way it wont be a problem.

 

[lone wolf]

Everything that was mentioned in the other posts plus pull the muffler and look at the piston and see if its scored. Then do a vac /pressure test if both these things work out the coil could be the problem.

 

[redoakneck]

Check the spark!!!

 

[lone wolf]

Check the spark!!!

After it wont start.

 

[Mad Professor]

Hello all,

Though newly signed up to the forums I have been a frequent visitor to this site, reading up other posts with valuable advice for fixing problems and getting recommendations. But now I'm stumped.

I seem to have bad luck with chainsaws. I've got four, none of which work reliably. An ancient Danarm 110cc which needs restoring, a much more modern looking but only couple of years newer Echo CS-451VL which has a very strange problem of never running twice in a row and seemingly wanting different carb adjustment setting each time I use it - but when it does work it's not very pleasant so that's just for static display now; a Stihl 023 which has a tendency to overheat, stall, and the oily grime always seems rather black for some reason - this is the most reliable of the four - and an 038 AV Super Farm Boss which is the main issue and subject of this thread.

After researching which saw to buy, trading off power vs budget and thinking 'how big a saw do I really need?' I came to the conclusion that something this size would do good, and nearly all forum posts universally hailed the 038 as one of the best saws Stihl ever made, preferring it to the 039 and ms390. So I bought one.

'Made in West Germany' shows the age, and buying second hand is always a gamble - but with only a little minor adjustment of carb screws, off it went... and boy does that saw cut nicely! It went through big antique oak beams like a hot knife through butter.
Then one day it stalled, then stalled again, then simply wouldn't start no matter what. Further inspection revealed a simple worn out barrel and piston, I guess it had had a lot of abuse in its 25-30 years of use.
So while I was at it, I rebuilt the entire thing - new bearing, oil seals, spark plug, piston, barrel, fuel line, impulse line, thorough clean out, carburettor thoroughly cleaned and whole rebuild kit fitted, exhaust wasn't coked up but cleaned anyway... Basically not a lot left that I could have done. I didn't change the ignition as it was working fine, good strong spark.
Moment of truth: it started! minor tweaking to the carb again but ran fine and idled well for a few minutes. Tested it at home a couple of days later, good as new, cut as it should, perfect! Felt rather satisfied with myself.
A few days later now having faith again I brought it to a job, expecting it to play up now that I needed it for work - but no, it was perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Next day: wouldn't start. At all. no matter what. (And yes, there is fuel in it!)
Many choice words were thrown out, and I am utterly frustrated at why it's not working again, already, so soon after being nearly entirely renewed. I simply don't understand what could be the problem, what could break so soon.

... Any ideas? Or am I just doomed to forever have bad luck wit all of my saws? I never get any of this aggro with brush cutters and hedge trimmers and the like.

- Dan

So is it mostly Chi-Com now or OEM? Only other stuff I use is Italian, by the guys who make Ducati parts.

One thought, did you replace the anti-vibe mounts? When they go bad it will pinch the plug wire and cause an intermittant short.

 

[Ibeatgodzilla]

Hi everybody,

First and foremost I want to apologize for not getting back to you all right away - it must seem very ungrateful on my part. It's no excuse, but I'd gotten so frustrated and fed up with chainsaws not working that I basically didn't want to look at it for a while. In the meantime the 023 had learnt to behave itself and has been much more reliable than usual, even though I haven't done anything to it lately, so that one got used for work.
But the other night, a storm brought down a big oak tree in our field. Using the HT-KM from the ground made bringing down the high up branches easy and safe, then came the 023... Then came the realization that I'd better have another look at the 038 before I tackle the big bits - it is hardwood after all.

So I came back here to check all of your posts (which I did see at the time) and planned to spend the afternoon going through each and every suggestion that had been contributed. For information, the bits that mattered (barrel and piston) were Italian and the rubbers were Chinese. I couldn't see the point in forking out 10 times more for a branded rubber hose.

I couldn't remember what I'd looked at previously as it's been so long, so I started with the obvious: fresh fuel, air filter coke plate seemingly has no issues, NGK spark plug still nearly new and sparking nicely. I tried priming it - and it fired - then of course died out again. Tried again, same thing (fywheel is fine by the way). The fuel filter is perfect, as expected (with so many new bits I found it hard to think anything could fail so quickly - especially the barrel and piston after only two uses, but I'd have checked them too if need be), the rubber hose and boot going from the carb to the barrel both fine, no leaks, compression good - this implied the carb was where the problem lied.

But... Just like everything else, I'd thoroughly cleaned out the carb (Bing 48) and put the best quality overhaul kit I could find in it (couldn't find branded ones unfortunately) - how could it fail so quickly? But I took it apart anyway, and to my surprise (and pleasure - it's nice to find the cause of a problem!) the little mesh filter inside the carb was completely blocked with a whitish deposit. It certainly doesn't look like rubbish from the fuel tank - which in theory would get caught on the fuel filter first anyway - however a memory instantly came back to me from when I was putting the carb back together when fitting the new membranes; my brother came along and said "Don't put grease on there! the fuel will dissolve things and it'll cause problems!" which I completely ignored as his mopeds have a tendency to break down every half mile, and my experience with car engines generally says put grease on gaskets. But in this case perhaps he was right, and I can't see what else the deposit could be.

So, of course, all removed, mesh put back, didn't fire at first but after one more prime, running like a dream again! I'm glad the problem was something so minor - of course I wish I'd have taken the time to look at it more in-depth a couple of months ago now - but certainly not something I'd have ever expected, having only just overhauled the carb before it stopped working!
Needless to say that's the first thing I'll check it it plays up again, just in case there's still some more blockage to come...

Again, apologies for it being to belated, but thanks to all of you for your valued input and advice! And I hope my experience and eventual solution to the problem help somebody else learn from my mistakes in the future.

- Dan

Now to get my dad's MS210 running properly again! Though that's probably down to old fuel and it not having been used for a couple of years...

 

[timbrjackrussel]

Hi everybody,

First and foremost I want to apologize for not getting back to you all right away - it must seem very ungrateful on my part. It's no excuse, but I'd gotten so frustrated and fed up with chainsaws not working that I basically didn't want to look at it for a while. In the meantime the 023 had learnt to behave itself and has been much more reliable than usual, even though I haven't done anything to it lately, so that one got used for work.
But the other night, a storm brought down a big oak tree in our field. Using the HT-KM from the ground made bringing down the high up branches easy and safe, then came the 023... Then came the realization that I'd better have another look at the 038 before I tackle the big bits - it is hardwood after all.

So I came back here to check all of your posts (which I did see at the time) and planned to spend the afternoon going through each and every suggestion that had been contributed. For information, the bits that mattered (barrel and piston) were Italian and the rubbers were Chinese. I couldn't see the point in forking out 10 times more for a branded rubber hose.

I couldn't remember what I'd looked at previously as it's been so long, so I started with the obvious: fresh fuel, air filter coke plate seemingly has no issues, NGK spark plug still nearly new and sparking nicely. I tried priming it - and it fired - then of course died out again. Tried again, same thing (fywheel is fine by the way). The fuel filter is perfect, as expected (with so many new bits I found it hard to think anything could fail so quickly - especially the barrel and piston after only two uses, but I'd have checked them too if need be), the rubber hose and boot going from the carb to the barrel both fine, no leaks, compression good - this implied the carb was where the problem lied.

But... Just like everything else, I'd thoroughly cleaned out the carb (Bing 48) and put the best quality overhaul kit I could find in it (couldn't find branded ones unfortunately) - how could it fail so quickly? But I took it apart anyway, and to my surprise (and pleasure - it's nice to find the cause of a problem!) the little mesh filter inside the carb was completely blocked with a whitish deposit. It certainly doesn't look like rubbish from the fuel tank - which in theory would get caught on the fuel filter first anyway - however a memory instantly came back to me from when I was putting the carb back together when fitting the new membranes; my brother came along and said "Don't put grease on there! the fuel will dissolve things and it'll cause problems!" which I completely ignored as his mopeds have a tendency to break down every half mile, and my experience with car engines generally says put grease on gaskets. But in this case perhaps he was right, and I can't see what else the deposit could be.

So, of course, all removed, mesh put back, didn't fire at first but after one more prime, running like a dream again! I'm glad the problem was something so minor - of course I wish I'd have taken the time to look at it more in-depth a couple of months ago now - but certainly not something I'd have ever expected, having only just overhauled the carb before it stopped working!
Needless to say that's the first thing I'll check it it plays up again, just in case there's still some more blockage to come...

Again, apologies for it being to belated, but thanks to all of you for your valued input and advice! And I hope my experience and eventual solution to the problem help somebody else learn from my mistakes in the future.

- Dan

Now to get my dad's MS210 running properly again! Though that's probably down to old fuel and it not having been used for a couple of years...

Did you change the fuel filter?
So while I was at it, I rebuilt the entire thing - new bearing, oil seals, spark plug, piston, barrel, fuel line, impulse line, thorough clean out, carburettor thoroughly cleaned and whole rebuild kit fitted, exhaust wasn't coked up but cleaned anyway... Basically not a lot left that I could have done. I didn't change the ignition as it was working fine, good strong spark.
Sounds like the filter is coming apart.
Replace it.