Cutting down a hang up on TV

[mbman]

Just watched an episode of extreme loggers (first time seeing the program).

A 100' tree got hung up in the crotch of another tree. The guy first cut down another tree to try and bring the hang up down. The tree he cut down rolled off the hang up and grazed the cameraman's shoulder (no injury). Buddy then notched and slowly back cut the standing tree. After a bit of a back cut, he started running away, all the while carrying the running chainsaw. A few more deeper cuts and the trees came down (fortunately not on him).

I took a chainsaw safety course a few years ago and was told to never cut a standing tree that is supporting a hung up tree. My concern is that many people watching this episode will get the idea that what this guy did is OK.

How do you folks handle hung up trees?

 

[Normsworld]

" I took a chainsaw safety course a few years ago and was told to never cut a standing tree that is supporting a hung up tree. "
Never is kinda strong . I have .... on occasion . Sometimes seems the best , quickest way .But I am not a pro ....in any stretch of your twinker. :

 

[slowp]

I don't--not a faller. I do have to go slap paint on those trees for them though, so they can legally fall them. Yes, as a last resort they will cut the tree that is holding up the hangup. Run like h#e#l#l will be used in the description of how to do it. For one outfit, they'll leave it and continue cutting until I arrive. Then we both have to stumble down through the brush. Then I worry about the faller who is falling that tree in the midst of slash and logs, usually a pretty solid layer of slash and logs.

Mind you, these fallers did not wake up one morning and become timber fallers. Most either started out on the rigging crew--where they better not be a klutz, and learned the tricks of working in the middle of deep slash and logs or came from a family of fallers.

Sometimes, they'll leave a hanger but with flagging all over it. Then the rigging crew can maybe pull it out. Or pull the standing tree over.

The thinning spacing can be pretty tight here. Hangups are common.

 

[Gologit]

I took a chainsaw safety course a few years ago and was told to never cut a standing tree that is supporting a hung up tree. My concern is that many people watching this episode will get the idea that what this guy did is OK.

How do you folks handle hung up trees?

If you get a tree hung up you can't just leave it there. If there's a skidder around I'll have them pull it down.
If there's not and you can't drive the hang-up down with another tree then stair-stepping it down is another option.
If it won't stair-step you might have to drop the tree it's hung up in. It's not my favorite thing to do but I've done it. I wouldn't advise it except as a last resort.
If your chainsaw safety class told you "never" to do something they might be right...but don't let the safety class cloud your common sense.

 

[jhays]

If you get a tree hung up you can't just leave it there. If there's a skidder around I'll have them pull it down.
If there's not and you can't drive the hang-up down with another tree then stair-stepping it down is another option.
If it won't stair-step you might have to drop the tree it's hung up in. It's not my favorite thing to do but I've done it. I wouldn't advise it except as a last resort.
If your chainsaw safety class told you "never" to do something they might be right...but don't let the safety class cloud your common sense.

The worst part of the whole thing, is how TV depics it. I believe this was the mule logging episode. They make the guy look like a hero for doing it. Just another way for Johnny Woodsman to get killed.

 

[mbman]

Yes, it was the mule logging episode. They did make the guy look like a hero.

I can understand how some professionals might do the same thing, based on some replys here.

For me, I'll stick to using my Masdaam puller (with 1/2" arbour rope). Up here, in central Manitoba, nothing bigger than 70' Aspen (with the occassional burr oak thrown in). I usually knock down 40-50' trees.

 

[371groundie]

get good enough that you dont miss? thats been my approach (im not perfect, but pretty dern good)

if its just laying up and not really tangled in you can cut your hinge and hope it rolls kinda to the side and lays down. if that doesnt do it try to roll it with a peavey.

you can play dominoes. using other trees to either a) knock the hung tree down b) knock the tree its hung in down or c)make a bad situation worse.

theres always the get a machine option.

you can start cutting peices off the bottom. but the top has a tendancy to fall back towards the stump once youve cut it short enough that it is almost vertical.

and you can cut the tree that its hung up in. depending on the situation you can get away with it.

all of the above are dangerous. the best option is the first. if you dont think you have space for a tree to fall to the ground start by making a hole to drop it in. when i cut a woodlot i start at the back. so my first couple days can be a real tangle trying not to drop anyhting over the property line and kinda line it up pointing at the landing. after that i can drop into the thinned stand rather that is much more open. much easier, much much easier.

 

[clearance]

If you get a tree hung up you can't just leave it there. If there's a skidder around I'll have them pull it down.
If there's not and you can't drive the hang-up down with another tree then stair-stepping it down is another option.
If it won't stair-step you might have to drop the tree it's hung up in. It's not my favorite thing to do but I've done it. I wouldn't advise it except as a last resort.
If your chainsaw safety class told you "never" to do something they might be right...but don't let the safety class cloud your common sense.

Me too, not allowed, not cool, but I have done it. Don't do it.

 

[Gologit]

Me too, not allowed, not cool, but I have done it. Don't do it.

LOL...Yeah. Like when you're just breaking in and some crusty old timer tells you "Look, we're not supposed to do this...but..." And then procedes to show you how to do it. The stuff I learned from the old guys kept me alive, put groceries on the table, and still stays with me to this day.

One of the things you learn is to evaluate risk. The OP has it right...too many people, well intentioned but totally clueless, will try some of the stunts they see on TV. Most of them, through sheer dumb luck, get away with it. Maybe they scare the hell out of themselves in the process. I hope so.

When things go bad in the woods, they go bad fast. A hang up can have tension in directions you'd never guess, both the hung tree and whatever is trapping it, and even the best fallers approach one like it was dynamite with the fuse lit.

 

[jburlingham]

LOL...Yeah. Like when you're just breaking in and some crusty old timer tells you "Look, we're not supposed to do this...but..." And then procedes to show you how to do it. The stuff I learned from the old guys kept me alive, put groceries on the table, and still stays with me to this day.

One of the things you learn is to evaluate risk. The OP has it right...too many people, well intentioned but totally clueless, will try some of the stunts they see on TV. Most of them, through sheer dumb luck, get away with it. Maybe they scare the hell out of themselves in the process. I hope so.

When things go bad in the woods, they go bad fast. A hang up can have tension in directions you'd never guess, both the hung tree and whatever is trapping it, and even the best fallers approach one like it was dynamite with the fuse lit.

I personally have never used dynamite, but for the holding try I have drilled a 3/4 " hole, packed it with black powder put some cannon fuse in and hammered a wood plug in it, light fuse escape....

It may not be cutting it down, but it comes down, and you get a nice loud bang.
Extra credit for using explosives :biggrinbounce2:

 

[slowp]

Confession time: Getting trees hung up isn't uncommon in our thinnings. One BIG reason is that marking timber is a position that folks getting their foot in the timber door start doing. It is low pay too. I know I didn't know the concept of limb lock when I was marking. Or leans, or much of anything except there was a spacing and I'd get yelled at if I didn't mark a certain amount of trees per day and cover ground.

That may be a problem made obsolete in newer sales here. We don't have enough funding for a marking crew, so the logger now is given a description or prescription for what the cut trees should be. It is mostly done by picking the biggest tree and then cutting everything around it for a spacing of ___ feet.

Meanwhile we still have a few old sales to work with. Sometimes fallers will leave trees and I'll agree because they'd have to cut more trees than it is worth to get one tree out.

WE go through just about every possible solution before the cut and run like h-e-l-l method is used. It is up to the faller to decide whether to do that or not.

I would prefer the not, and don't even like to watch.

 

[GASoline71]

If you get a tree hung up you can't just leave it there. If there's a skidder around I'll have them pull it down.
If there's not and you can't drive the hang-up down with another tree then stair-stepping it down is another option.
If it won't stair-step you might have to drop the tree it's hung up in. It's not my favorite thing to do but I've done it. I wouldn't advise it except as a last resort.
If your chainsaw safety class told you "never" to do something they might be right...but don't let the safety class cloud your common sense.

LOL...Yeah. Like when you're just breaking in and some crusty old timer tells you "Look, we're not supposed to do this...but..." And then procedes to show you how to do it. The stuff I learned from the old guys kept me alive, put groceries on the table, and still stays with me to this day.

One of the things you learn is to evaluate risk. The OP has it right...too many people, well intentioned but totally clueless, will try some of the stunts they see on TV. Most of them, through sheer dumb luck, get away with it. Maybe they scare the hell out of themselves in the process. I hope so.

When things go bad in the woods, they go bad fast. A hang up can have tension in directions you'd never guess, both the hung tree and whatever is trapping it, and even the best fallers approach one like it was dynamite with the fuse lit.

Great words Bob... I couldn't have said it better myself...

Gary

 

[tramp bushler]

You ought to see the timber in Southeast !!

I need to get a scanner again . I,ve got some great pictures about this theme .. Someone would call me a liar if I told about some of them ... Sufice to say that when good experienced fallers from the PNW come to Southeast , they have to learn how to cut timber all over again ............ Often I will put a driver into a tree to help me lift it with wedges........ When all you have is the grey matter between your ears , a sharp saw, wedges and a raftin ax , the forest , and hopefully God,s help . You need to learn how to get er done , fast , safetly , and without bustin up your timber ..............Up here the ability to run very fast is a pre requisit for cuttin timber .........Chocker dogs learn what it means when the slinger says ,( run or die )!!!
.
. Course , thats why I have a bunch of guys I cut with sleeping under head stones ..
.
. When I was taught how to do this the right way , when the man breakin me in got the trees on the ground and was telling me what to watch for , how to do it ,ect. I asked him ( what happens if you trip ) he looked at me like he was going to cuff me up side the head , and said ,( well , you die ) shook his head and said (what a stupid question ). !

 

[Billy_Bob]

OSHA Says... "Do NOT work in the presence of hung trees. Have these death-traps pushed or pulled down by a machine."

Then a book I have on felling (Professional Timber Falling by Douglas Dent) frequently says "LEAVE IT" throughout the book.

That is if there is a dangerous situation you do not know how to handle, then don't mess with it - get help is the idea.

If it is a dangerous hang-up which you have created, then string "danger tape" or "yellow caution tape" all around the area. This would alert other people to not go walking in that area.

Then call a pro with a bucket truck or someone with the machinery and experience to get it down safely.

This may be expensive, but much less expensive than a hospital bill!

Basically take your time and THINK about the situation.

 

[056kid]

Hung trees can be dangerous, I have learned from a few.

As far as the TV show, them boys cut like the old timers around here.

Make a kirf, slap alittle scarf in it. cut the back till it pops, its going where it wants.

in the case where the camera mans shoulder was grased(pure bull ####)

If you get grazed by the butt of a log, your goin down...

But any way, hid red oak snagged the ash cause of his what hammer logging would call a swarp notch. then probably the same deal with the ash.

It could have been done easier & safer than illustrated on tv...

 

[Greystoke]

I need to get a scanner again . I,ve got some great pictures about this theme .. Someone would call me a liar if I told about some of them ... Sufice to say that when good experienced fallers from the PNW come to Southeast , they have to learn how to cut timber all over again ............ Often I will put a driver into a tree to help me lift it with wedges........ When all you have is the grey matter between your ears , a sharp saw, wedges and a raftin ax , the forest , and hopefully God,s help . You need to learn how to get er done , fast , safetly , and without bustin up your timber ..............Up here the ability to run very fast is a pre requisit for cuttin timber .........Chocker dogs learn what it means when the slinger says ,( run or die )!!!
.
. Course , thats why I have a bunch of guys I cut with sleeping under head stones ..
.
. When I was taught how to do this the right way , when the man breakin me in got the trees on the ground and was telling me what to watch for , how to do it ,ect. I asked him ( what happens if you trip ) he looked at me like he was going to cuff me up side the head , and said ,( well , you die ) shook his head and said (what a stupid question ). !

I concur! My first trip up there when I was eighteen...I am surprised that I lived

 

[lone wolf]

hung tree wow

whats you question how to get it down with what you have to do it at all or the proper way

 

[tramp bushler]

I guess if your not man enough to do your job right you should pass the problem on to someone else .... Thats what our government is doing with most everything ......... I was taught to be more self reliant .. I guess thats the difference between a Professional and a homeowner with a toy saw .... Maybe there should be a bracket for those who only can ask questions ,and those who can give answers ........
.
. One of the most dangerous things you can do is pick up a power saw .... If you can,t accept that , leave them alone !!!
.
.If you need to call a professional , well and good . A man's got to know his limitations ........ But don,t get on some forum and make silly blanket statements ..

 

[John Ellison]

I concur! My first trip up there when I was eighteen...I am surprised that I lived

HaHa, me to. I broke in as a green faller in southeast AK. Not a good combination.