damage waiver?

[kf_tree]

at work i basicly have 2 boss's......the one i answer to on a daily basis does not climb the main owner has about 15 years in a saddle. i was sent to do a silver removal yesterday and walked. one of my ground men there has about 40 years in a saddle but he's getting up there in age so he does not climb much any more, he did not have a good feeling about the job either. i called my boss and told him i would give it a shot but i did not think i could get the wood down with out doing damage. 90% of the top had to get lowered over either a shed or deck because of the lean the tree grew on. there must have been another tree behind it at one point because the tree was pretty one sided. getting the brush out was not the problem, the problem would be getting the wood down. i only had a 4-5 foot wide hole between the shed and the deck.(this was not a tin shed, a wooden structure, windows flower box's etc it could not be moved)i could lower alot of the wood off a pulley but the bottom 25 or so feet was just too big to fold over. it would of had to get halved or quartered up on the stick and pushed off. i'm sure there would have been some bad bounce's.

so i called the boss that climbs to take a peek at it. he told the customer the only way we would do the tree is if he signed a damage waiver, he told him we would try our best but odds are something would get damaged. so at least i felt justified in my judgement. there was no access for a crane or bucket.


so what do you do with a job like that? just not bid and say no thank you. will a damage waiver actually hold up if it came to court?

 

[P_woozel]

I've done crane jobs where we would get the customer to indemnify us, The ownere at the time would have his attorney write it up I would guess it would hold. Remeber there are "undoable" trees Walking away is the smart thing to do sometimes. there will always be someone else who is more than willing to tackle the job be it a success or a failure. :umpkin:

 

[MasterBlaster]

Those are the trees I always seem to get.

 

[kf_tree]

Those are the trees I always seem to get.

the deal is this......i don't do damage. let me repeat myself, i don't do damage. i take on my share of nasty tree's and oh....i don't do damage. this was just a job i did not feel i could make that claim , so the ball went to my boss's court.

ive only been at this for about 10 years now so i'm just a youngster compared to alot of the guys on here but in those 10 years on my jobs or when i was running ropes for the guy would took me under his wing and taught me to climb, i'd say maybe i've seen 500.00 in damage and thats probably on the high side. i'd say thats pretty good.

now i hope i didn't just jinx myself.

 

[Manco]

the deal is this......i don't do damage.

now i hope i didn't just jinx myself.

Yeah, be careful. It's always better to err on the safe side. I've had quite a few people say,"just do the best you can" I do my best work when it's just me, the crew and the tree. Once a homeowner sees you remove something that looks very dangerous to them but is commonplace to you, they can get kinda fidgety. The best customers tell you what they want done and leave you to your business. Not tell you what they want done, and then how to do it. I find that when a homeowner has a lot of dangerous suggestions about how the tree needs to be cut or taken down, I offer to let them use my saw or climbing gear. Havn't had a taker yet.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Remeber there are "undoable" trees

Tell that to NETREE.

One of the companies I sub with is known as that other company that will do any tree. It's not really a matter of risk so much as one of experience. Of course many of the prices that would make some of these trees "undoable" are not a problem for many of our seasonal Florida residents.

We encountered a situation similar to kftree's a couple of months ago. To get the big wood down I used a 372 with a 28 inch bar and cut 2 inch cookies. Then it was a matter of dropping them into the same spot (a pile of chips wheelbarrowed back) each time. It took about an hour and a half, but that time was factored into the bid.

TT

 

[Koa Man]

the bottom 25 or so feet was just too big to fold over. it would of had to get halved or quartered up on the stick and pushed off. i'm sure there would have been some bad bounce's.
............so what do you do with a job like that?

I have done a couple where I did have to half the wood on the stick. Not easy and make sure you are using a steel core lanyard. Other times I cut thin slices at an angle away from the target and that, along with a wedge, helps slide it in the right direction. If I am afraid of bad bounces, I always have the ground guys leave a nice pile of brush for me to drop the logs into. They will also have to move away any logs that sit on the top of the pile, otherwise the next log will bounce off of that one. Some plyboard set up against the walls of the shed will help prevent damage if something rolls or bounces into it. Not much you can do about the roof. All of this extra time, materials and effort will need to be factored into the bid.

I once removed a dead tree with some large branches 10 ft. over a glass roof. A couple of other tree companies passed on that job. On that one I was lucky to have two trees in just the right spot. I put a pulley in each and ran the lowering line across like a clothes line. A guy to pull on each side and another with the tag line to get it away from the roof as it was being lowered. Owner was impressed and job went without a hitch.

 

[kf_tree]

do any tree.

We encountered a situation similar to kftree's a couple of months ago. To get the big wood down I used a 372 with a 28 inch bar and cut 2 inch cookies.

TT

dude..... a 395 is a wood saw to me. i don't even bother pulling up a 372.....i even stopped pulling up a 385.......i have 3 395's with different size bars and just go by what bar is needed. remember i learned how to climb in brooklyn, tight quarters are common place to me. my modified 395 with a 36in bar would not pass straight through this wood. standing on a stick for an hour and a half is not that uncommon on a weekly basis. i would have to borrow my buddys 16ft belt, since my biggest is 12ft. i never said i wouldn't give it a shot, just that there was a good chance of damage. i figure my best chance would be to get all the brush out on one day and get the wood down the next day when i was fresh. but he was only getting 4000.00 for the tree so it's a one day job, so i'd have to push. i average about 2900.00 a day so the tree just isn't worth doing if we would have to eat any damage.

 

[kf_tree]

I have done a couple where I did have to half the wood on the stick. Not easy and make sure you are using a steel core lanyard. Other times I cut thin slices at an angle away from the target and that, along with a wedge, helps slide it in the right direction. If I am afraid of bad bounces, I always have the ground guys leave a nice pile of brush for me to drop the logs into. They will also have to move away any logs that sit on the top of the pile, otherwise the next log will bounce off of that one. Some plyboard set up against the walls of the shed will help prevent damage if something rolls or bounces into it. Not much you can do about the roof. All of this extra time, materials and effort will need to be factored into the bid.

I once removed a dead tree with some large branches 10 ft. over a glass roof. A couple of other tree companies passed on that job. On that one I was lucky to have two trees in just the right spot. I put a pulley in each and ran the lowering line across like a clothes line. A guy to pull on each side and another with the tag line to get it away from the roof as it was being lowered. Owner was impressed and job went without a hitch.

the brush pile and all that is good advice but it's nothing i didn't think of , or don't do on a regular basis.

as far as dead tree rigging.......i love rigging jobs. i completely enjoy jobs where we spend 2-3 hours rigging ropes from buildings other tree's etc just to make a few big cuts. a guy i work with(we each run a crew so were not working side by side all the time) has been at it for 30 years and is very creative with rigging. on nasty jobs i'd always rather think of a way to rig than take my chance's.

 

[hobby climber]

When in doubt ,rig it out! Safety first and always! :angel: HC

 

[Lumberjack]

kf, are you here for suggestions or trying to brag? Your seemingly getting more and more cocky.

You make twice what I make? Whoppiedy Doo your cost of living is 4 times mine, your overhead is at least 5 times mine, and I am around 1/2-2/3 your age.

How big is this stick and how big is your landing zone? Is the tree down?

Seems to me that if you have done all these ballsy trees then this little thing wouldnt be that big a deal. I have been doing this for 2 years and since I cant see the tree I can only speculate that if you could drop 3'x2' blocks (dunno the diameter of this stick lets say its the 3') into a grass drop zone that was at least 9x5 (generous for only a 20' drop) you could make a plywood bin to catch the pieces. You would kill the grass unless you lined it with brush, I guess a picture would be better to show your case. Just doesnt seem like that big a deal for a climber of your stature.

 

[begleytree]

If you're going to ask for opinions, you take 'em all, not just the ones you agree with. Remember, you started this thread.
As far as you bringing something to the bosses attention, well, thats good, but who was the one wrote the job to begin with? If they can estimate work, couldn't they see the damage potiential? The question isn't wether or not you should walk off and request a waiver in case, it's why wasn't one already signed before the crew was dispatched to do the work? They dropped the ball, once in not having it signed already, and again sending you out just to come back to pull other work. Lotta lost time-Ralph

 

[kf_tree]

the thread was damage waiver?.....not how do i do this tree? my boss who estimated the job droped the ball on this one. he should of had one of the climbers look at it before he threw a price at it. between the 3 climbers that looked at it there was 65 years exp. i never said it couldn't be done but why take a chance when the rewards aren't that great. i was mearly asking if anyone had written damage waivers and would they hold up. i'd have had no problem stepping a side and letting our other climber of 30 years give the tree a shot if thats what my boss wanted to do. but he felt the damage waiver was the way to go.

that statement of standing on a stick with a 372 with a 28 in bar for an hour and a half, really twisted my nuts. it just made me say.....gee thats great you stood on a stick with an underpowered saw for a 28in bar, and your trying to give me advice.

i'll clean up my last post a bit.

actually they decided to just prune the tree now instead of removing it. i went there on fri and the were pouring concrete in the yard next to it.(this is turning into one of those jobs) i put my camera in my truck and get a few pics if i get back over there.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Who peed in your corn flakes?

so what do you do with a job like that?

You asked. Even though you weren't the one I was replying to, it seemed that the current issue was how to get a sizeable spar down without doing damage.

dude.......don't make me come and spank you. a 395 is a climbing saw to me. paraphrase: Blah, Blah, Blah...

Big saw talk, WOW!! Can I touch one? I don't know when the last time I saw such a big machine was. Oh, silly me, that was yesterday in my truck. Maybe one day I can learn to use a bigger saw than what I actually need too.

standing on a stick for an hour and a half is nothing, that is common place. i can't even count the times i've done that chunking down wood. i would have had to borrow my buddys 16ft belt, since my biggest is 12ft.

Maybe you should invest in lanyards so you can talk about how many and how big they are too.

i never said i wouldn't give it a shot, just that there was a good chance of damage. i figure my best chance would be to get all the brush out on one day and get the wood down the next day when i was fresh. but he was only getting 4000.00 for the tree so it's a one day job, so i'd have to push. i average about 2900.00 a day so the tree just isn't worth doing if we would have to eat any damage..

Now what was it that I was actually talking about in my first reply to this thread...

Oh yeah, price, experience, and how to get big wood down safely. Just because I pointed out that doable most often depends on price, doesn't mean I was zinging you or your company.

i stood up there with a 372 for an hour and a half....whew it was tough but we got it done........give me a dam break......the more i think about it the more pissed that makes me.

Tough? That's tough? Who said so? You need to calm down and think about what you're saying. There a so many people on this board that would spank both of us in a tree that it's not even funny. The problem is many of them have stopped wasting their time on this board because of threads like this. RBTREE probably wishes that he had some trees that you're refering to so he could take a break from the really technical stuff. We won't know because Roger stopped posting months ago mostly because of people whining and beating their chests when there was no cause.

should i have been like most climbers and just dropped a chunk through the roof? it is my job to say....hey you might want to take another look at this.

Did the same person write this? An actual contribution to the thread that might actually help us? This kind of talk is what the board is here for...

this:

that is probably why i get paid twice what you do.

i've stood on sticks chunking wood with a 3120 and a 42in bar.

is not what any of us are here for.

TT

 

[kf_tree]

tree trimmer

i'll apolagize for jumping all over your chit. i'm sorry, but that 372 line just set me off. if a 28in bar could make the cut it's not sizeable wood. i just took it like a smack to the back of the head .

 

[MasterBlaster]

So, who's buying the beer???

 

[Tree Trimmer]

I'd buy, but I'm dry.

TT

 

[Lumberjack]

I used my 088KD yesterday, cuts like a raped ape.

 

[hobby climber]

Hey...how about some pic to show the different methods of taking down big trees in tight confines, rigging only, (no Cains or buckets). This would be much more informative that just "measuring the size of our tools" !!! It would give everyone here an idea of how others do it and (newer) members can comment on the techniques used...and learn something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! With respect, HC

 

[kf_tree]

I used my 088KD yesterday, cuts like a raped ape.

did you buy that from the used equip forum a few months back? i still kick myself for missing that saw. i'm a husky man but i'm not sure if i want to go with a 880 or 3120. i hear the 880/088 is the better saw.