Dawn Redwood root flare?

[D.D]

Hello!

After my last Dawn Redwood I purchased had such bad root girdling, I bought another 4 inch diameter field grown tree.

While there is no girdling on this one, I'm having a hard time finding an actual flare. I'll attach a few photos of what I'm dealing with.



I'm afraid to go down any more, and the roots showing are rather large. So any advice on what I should remove or leave would be greatly appreciated!

 

[BeatCJ]

I would just cover the highest root.

 

[D.D]

That's what I was leaning towards. Just worried too much of the trunk will be buried.

 

[ATH]

Keep digging. Those really look to be secondary roots. They aren't enough to support the tree long term.

Bottom left of 2rd pic - is that the top of a real flare?

 

[D.D]

I thought that was the top of the actual flare, but I dug all around that and even lower on other side of the trunk and there is nothing. Just keeps going straight down. The 3rd pic after that one is on opposite side. Hard to tell in the photo but that is lower than the other side that had what looked to be the root flare. That's why I decided to stop and wait before cutting anything. Can't find any visible flare.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I thought that was the top of the actual flare, but I dug all around that and even lower on other side of the trunk and there is nothing. Just keeps going straight down. The 3rd pic after that one is on opposite side. Hard to tell in the photo but that is lower than the other side that had what looked to be the root flare. That's why I decided to stop and wait before cutting anything. Can't find any visible flare.

Are you having to dig up the tree you just bought? Another nursery?

 

[D.D]

Are you having to dig up the tree you just bought? Another nursery?

It's already dug out and at my place.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

It's already dug out and at my place.

Are the pics you posted of you planting the tree, or of it being dug up?

So, it was dug out of the ground and not in a container?

 

[D.D]

Yes that is planted at my place. I bought the tree, they already had it dig up and wrapped up for me when I picked it up. Now I'm just trying to figure out where the root flare is and what I should actually remove. I have it planted high enough, so if I have to dig down it will still be above ground level.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Yes that is planted at my place. I bought the tree, they already had it dig up and wrapped up for me when I picked it up. Now I'm just trying to figure out where the root flare is and what I should actually remove. I have it planted high enough, so if I have to dig down it will still be above ground level.

Was the tree bare root when you bought it, or b&b?
Did you get it from the same nursery that sold you the other bad one?

 

[D.D]

No this is a different nursery. The tree was b&b, but was in the ground until I bought it. So was only balled for a few days. It's a 4inch diameter tree that is over 16 ft tall.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Idk.
I'm no arborist, but the bottom of that tree looks like it's been compressed by something that caused the adventitious roots to grow above whatever that might have been.... like it was planted in a plastic bucket or something similar.
Just looks very weird to me.
And usually, a b&b root ball gets planted as is, with soil and burlap.

 

[ATH]

Idk.
I'm no arborist, but the bottom of that tree looks like it's been compressed by something that caused the adventitious roots to grow above whatever that might have been.... like it was planted in a plastic bucket or something similar.
Just looks very weird to me.
And usually, a b&b root ball gets planted as is, with soil and burlap.

"usually"...as in that is what happens most frequently. But that is not what SHOULD happen. At the very least the top needs to be taken off to determine correct depth. Most trees come too deep, so the top needs excavated. Best practice is to remove all package materials.

As for that tree, probably grown in a pot (too deep) before it was planted out into the field (too deep-er). Yeah, I agree with you: weird roots.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

"usually"...as in that is what happens most frequently. But that is not what SHOULD happen. At the very least the top needs to be taken off to determine correct depth. Most trees come too deep, so the top needs excavated. Best practice is to remove all package materials.

As for that tree, probably grown in a pot (too deep) before it was planted out into the field (too deep-er). Yeah, I agree with you: weird roots.

Yeah, I agree with you too on peeling back the burlap when planting.
I was just asking since the op said it was B&B, but I didn't see any burlap, or wire basket.

 

[D.D]

Yes I removed the burlap from top and removed the upper half of wire basket. I know some like to leave it as is but I prefer to remove what I can if the soil allows for it. I agree it was planted too deep. Seems to be common no matter where you go. I figured I would just have to dig down to the actual flare and remove any small roots above that. I'll see what I can uncover on it tomorrow.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Yes I removed the burlap from top and removed the upper half of wire basket. I know some like to leave it as is but I prefer to remove what I can if the soil allows for it. I agree it was planted too deep. Seems to be common no matter where you go. I figured I would just have to dig down to the actual flare and remove any small roots above that. I'll see what I can uncover on it tomorrow.

What I'm thinking, and I could be wrong, is that those roots you see may be the only roots due to the bottom of the trunk being constricted and atrophied. Just a wild guess. Hopefully not.
Please share what you find tomorrow. I'm curious!

 

[ATH]

The tissue under the bark is undifferentiated tissue. It doesn't know what it's supposed to be when it grows up. If it is dark and moist some of it decides it should be a root. If it is above ground and exposed to air, it becomes bark. So it's not so much that the primary roots are being killed off, but rather more that secondary roots establish in response to being planted too deep.

Having said that, this is likely a short term survival strategy whereby the tree "knows" the deep roots will die off so it puts out secondary roots "hoping" it will at least live to reproductive age to perpetuate the species.

The cynic in me notes that also works out pretty well for the nursery industry. Why would they change when they sell more trees this way. Not many people know that the tree dying at 15 years old was because production and planting practices. But if the tree lived for 100 years, that's 6 fewer trees getting planted in the same spot.

 

[D.D]

So I sat under the tree for like 2 hours like a damn archeologist slowly removing dirt away from the tree. I did end up finding a root flare. I removed the above roots and hope it will still be ok. Still a few that could probably be removed but I think I might wait until the tree becomes more established first.
Here are the after photos and a pic of the roots removed. Let me know what you guys think.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

The cynic in me notes that also works out pretty well for the nursery industry. Why would they chant when they sell more trees this way. Not many people know that the tree dying at 15 years old was because production and planting practices. But if the tree lived for 100 years, that's 6 fewer trees getting planted in the same spot.

Agreed 200%
That's one reason the nurserymen around here aren't the least bit concerned about the chemical drift from the row crop farmers. Several I talked to just shrugged their shoulders and said they have insurance for that.
In other words, the more trees that are killed for various reasons, the more trees they sell.
Planned obsolescence.