DEAD pine

[treeman82]

I looked at a white pine on Wednesday afternoon with a good friend of mine who I climb for. He submitted a bid the other day for $2,800 and I am thinking that he will get it. For that price, the wood stays as do the chips.

The tree is right around 100' tall. DEAD as a mo fo. We figure by looking at it that it was struck by lightning some time ago. It was rotten enough that we were standing next to it and could literally just pick the wood off the trunk with our bare hands. There is really no rigging involved with this tree, however it can't be flopped either. Pieces of no more than 30' in length can be dropped into an area which is going to have to be cleared on one side. There is a live white pine of the approximately same size located somewhat nearby.

I figure that I will shoot a climbing line up into the white pine with the BS from the ground. Climb off that. Then shoot another line up into the tops of the dead pine and put pull ropes up there so that the 2 tops can be pulled out into the LZ. While the LZ is descent sized, the pieces being bombed out are going to have to go in a pretty specific area.

It's a fairly straight forward job, however my mind makes me think of the poor guy who got killed doing the lightning struck pine.

So pretty much I just want to ask for any tips, tricks, or words of the wise in dealing with lightning struck, rotten, white pine.

 

[rbtree]

With another tree close by, that sounds like it could be a breeze. If the dbh is under 3 feet, that sounds like a 3 -5 hour job total, including cleanup. We'd be hard pressed to get over $1000-1200 for a similar tree, and do them often....lots of blister rust killed western white pine locally.

I'd suggest drilling the tree to see if the heart wood is stronger than the exterior wood. Often dead pine have the punkiest wood near the bottom and outside. If so, the tree should be reasonably safe to climb. But I'd sure want to know how long its been dead. And lightning can really do a number on the wood!

Can you guy it in a couple or three directions? Say at half height or higher?

How about a self propelled aerial lift--Genie or other brand?

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Doncha just love it when people wait for 8 years after a tree dies to have it removed?

Kenn

 

[murphy4trees]

Years ago I had a dead beech removal... this tree was bad and I wanted to see how much it moved under a pull line before I went up there... Two men pulling w/o MA, managed to bust the top out... Very cool now it was reset the line and cut it from the ground...

So just a thought.. maybe you could guy it ar 70 feet and try bustin out the top... Probably not worth the effort, unless you can hit some fast good shots with the trowline/BS...

There are plenty of fatalities in this industry from tree failure, but most of my experience has been that trees look scarier than they really are...

 

[treeman82]

I would love to try moving the top around with a couple ropes. That would kind of make me nervous though for 2 reasons. 1) There is a building about 5 feet behind the tree (180 from where the LZ is) 2) I might be haleucenating, but I think I saw some root plate movement. The back looks kind of high, compared to the underside where the weight is.

Tree is about 3 - 4' DBH. I like the idea of being tied into the live white pine, however G-d forbid the whole dead pine should give way, its going almost straight for where I am tied into.

 

[MasterBlaster]

A lotta tree company owners see a dead tree like that and tell themselves, "The climber can just tie-in to that tree "over there".

More times than not, these guys have no real experience climbing. They just assume if you can tie-in to 'another tree', then everything's gonna be peachy keen.

I beg to differ. Rarely does the situation arise where tieing into the 'other tree' is a safe scenerio. At best you're gonna take a big swing, hope you hit the 'other tree' facing it, and the failed dead tree doesn't get snagged in your climbing line. Been there, done that. Got real stoved up.

I try to avoid that scene nowadays.

Dead pines? I start at the bottom, and work my way up. If my spurs stick, I keep going. I move VERY carefully, and with PRECISE movement to minimize movement of the tree. The tree will tell you how far up you can go. 99% of the time, I can get high enough to push the top out. Then I just block the sucker down.

Since I bought my BS, having to set the topping pull line has become even easier.

But you have to tread lightly, and know when to STOP.

 

[kowens]

i have used a crane many of times as my tie in point i tie
on to the boom not the ball trying to haul that 300# ball
around does not work start at the top slice and dice your
way down
did it with this dead oak that was falling apart we already had the crane next door
you dont need a large crane just large enough to support your
weaight

 

[wiley_p]

Tying into another tree that is more than 20' away is just a mental placebo, if you have a stem failure you are in for a pendulum swing possibly with running saw etc, very difficult to stick. What MB said is experience talking, you may find that its not sane to go past 40' or you may find the stem is sound and you make it to 8" dia. play it by gut, and if the tree has been dead awhile check the buttress for heavy decay, and get a tagline in what in theory will be the top as soon as able. 2400.00 sounds like a decent price, I disagree with some of the low prices in this area for these types of trees, because the pricing ignores the exposure to climber and the company, remember we should charge for assumed risk, everything does not always go smooth and things like guying, removing fences, etc take time. White pines dont always last a ;long time after getting geezed, and lightning transmits alot of force into the wood.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I like the way the high risk trees are priced higher, so the owner makes a fistfull of money, then the climber takes the risk for his $15 an hour.

 

[wiley_p]

That's why a good owner will provide hazard pay for those that are doing the work, those that don't show themselves to be nothing more than bloodsucking scum that dont know or remember an honest days hard skilled labor. And those types of companies are numerous.

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
When I pulled forward, I thought something had come untied because I barely felt any resistance. Looked back and the tree was coming down!!

Did similiar with a dead poplar once, scared the sh** out of me looking in the side mirror seeing the tree coming towards me,
Objects in the rear view mirror definitely look closer when they are falling out of the sky.

 

[Dadatwins]

About the dead pine, mention of building behind it, is it house or brick building? Any chance of using building as anchor to tie off pine ? Tied climbing line into a fire escape once to remove dead rotting ailanthus next to a building. Agree with the others about about taking a 20' + swing into another tree with a saw does not sound appealing. Maybe rig up another line to building to lesson swing? Be careful!

 

[treeman82]

Actually its an old, but good condition 2 or 3 car garage with I guess an apartment up top? All wood. The place is an old estate in Pound Ridge...

I am definately going to take it slow going up. I was thinking though that I would bomb out any larger branches which are in my way on the way up. Take it from the top down, like I have mass dampening working for me a little bit.

 

[murphy4trees]

Every climber should have the ability to pass on any job for safety concerns...
And what does overpriced inferior medical care have to do with socialized medicine... the problem here is that medicine and capitalism don't mix well... It's greed (the profit motive) not socialism that is at the root of the problems with medical care in the US...

And I believe Cuba would be an excellent example of a great system of socialized medicine.. Certainly when compared to other developing countries in the Caribbean and south and cenrtal America..

 

[rumination]

Don't forget Costa Rica, Murph!

 

[JCSJC]

Bravo

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel

My risk, my money. I will decide what I will do and how much I will charge, and I will take full responsibility for the outcome. I do not need a Government Nanny to 'take care of me'. There are more and more doctors out there who are willing to work for reasonable rates and they do not want anything to do with your insurance or W.C. I can get good medical care by paying out of pocket and not getting caught up in the insurance scam. Health care is not a 'right' to be doled out by the government. Look around the world and find ONE instance of successful socialized medicine, I dare you!

Looks like someone listens to Boortz on rainy days. :angel:

 

[Stumper]

I hesitate to mention this since I happen to agree with Brian about socialism and overweaning government in general. In the old South Africa ( I have no knowledge of now-my experience is from before the end of Apartheid and before AIDS) they had socialized Medicine co-existing with private medical practice. Private Doctors charged more but were still quite reasonable. 10 Rand (about $12.50 then) would cover an office call and some antibiotics or pain meds AND a follow-up visit if the Dr. deemed it necessary. Doctors lived well but were not super rich. The public health care was quite good.-Same deal;-Dr.s had good salaries that put them in the upper middle class but not "rich".
Being white I only saw that end of things. The system may not have worked as well as it seemed but I know that my mother and sister got good care and we were able to pay for it without ins.
I still see socialization as a disaster but it sort of works if private care can still exist AND the people aren't suers.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I take it a big crane is out of the question?

 

[Eagle1]

who climbs for $15 per hour??

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Eagle1
who climbs for $15 per hour??

Probably a lot more people than you might suspect.