Descenders vs prusik

[Tree Raptor]

I just purchased an almost new bucket truck and am looking to increase my knowledge all around. Pictures to come soon. We currently use a 3rd party climber for tall/big stuff and 40' and 32' ladders for all else. Don't laugh, you would be surprised as to how big a tree you can take down with a 40'er and pole saw. I don't climb per say but am very comfortable up top a 40' ladder in a saddle. I actually like being up top. Anyhow, I would like suggestions on best application for lowering myself from the bucket in case of emergency or 40' ladder while saddled in if it were to kick out.

I know how to make a prusik but never tried to use it. I know that their are a ton of different descenders out there but don't know one from the other. You have the typical fiure 8 and the rescue figure 8 and such. Not sure if I should use a friction type knot or descender piece. I have been taking down trees now for almost 20 years and other than a bandade now and then.... and I would like to keep it that way so looking for something very safe.

thanks in advance

If I need to lower myself down can I get some suggestions or possible options. I alway have a rope with me.

 

[ntsarborist]

put an aerial rescue kit together. heres what you need.

a throwline (12oz weight would be ideal)
saddle(nothing fancy, just somthing that gets your a** out of the air)
about 100' of rope
a set of spikes(dont need but good to have)

just use the drt method and tie a blakes hitch in your rope.

also make sure that you have someone on the ground that can throw a throwline good.

 

[woodchux]

Not bashing you, but if you truely want to work safely... please stop cutting from ladders.

 

[treemandan]

I just purchased an almost new bucket truck and am looking to increase my knowledge all around. Pictures to come soon. We currently use a 3rd party climber for tall/big stuff and 40' and 32' ladders for all else. Don't laugh, you would be surprised as to how big a tree you can take down with a 40'er and pole saw. I don't climb per say but am very comfortable up top a 40' ladder in a saddle. I actually like being up top. Anyhow, I would like suggestions on best application for lowering myself from the bucket in case of emergency or 40' ladder while saddled in if it were to kick out.

I know how to make a prusik but never tried to use it. I know that their are a ton of different descenders out there but don't know one from the other. You have the typical fiure 8 and the rescue figure 8 and such. Not sure if I should use a friction type knot or descender piece. I have been taking down trees now for almost 20 years and other than a bandade now and then.... and I would like to keep it that way so looking for something very safe.

thanks in advance

If I need to lower myself down can I get some suggestions or possible options. I alway have a rope with me.

I find it almost impossible to believe you but the scary thing is is that I do. Well, its never to late to learn I guess, as long as your still alive that is. We wish you all the best in your endevours and WE WILL SET YOU STRAIGHT. Welcome.


First thing is get a climbing line, take it with you everywhere you go.

 

[treemandan]

Ok, I have to.

The man said he has been taking down trees for 20 years. Well, I guess with just a measly ladder and a pole saw I would imagine its been the same one.

No, don't fret it my friend. I am very much intrested in seeing some of your pics, I think we all are. Beleive me we will stand behind you, very far behind you.

I hope you like to have fun.

 

[oldirty]

Not bashing you, but if you truely want to work safely... please stop cutting from ladders.

ladders dont belong in treework.

dont be lazy.

 

[UrbanLogger]

:agree2:

ladders dont belong in treework.

dont be lazy.

+1

 

[treemandan]

ladders dont belong in treework.

dont be lazy.

I think there should be a ladder on top every truck. Defiantely. If you have a top kick- sure a big ladder. You got a wire to drop, shrub to prune, put it on the pinic table to get the hanger down or a man who is kinda in a position where he don't really care how you get up to him just do it real fast.

After I just ran the top of my 20 into the underside of my left wrist ( sorry buddy , no pics) I think I would have been able to just unhook and climb down. Maybe it was 35 feet.

I went down on the line though, the other end of my rope was double crotched so I knew I didn't have quite the length to hit the ground. It was gushing pretty good by the time I clipped the saw back on my belt. I took look at the guys who would have only killed us both if they tried to come up and jumped.

The line ran out 12 feet to the ground, Rodney is tossing me his ratty Buck which the rope just laughs at. He is 6 plus so he sticks his hands up to give me lift so I can unclip but it ain't enough but that's just fine because Callus is now tossing me the diver's knife ( he knows where its velcro-ed, everybody does) and that was just a one and done.

This happened years back so the frightful twinges are pretty much gone but the lessons do remain.


Yo, this thread is about ladders man. Who is this troll? Tree raptor? HUH?

 

[BC WetCoast]

You say you have a saddle. So, what you could utilize is a rescue 8. If you are on top of the ladder, with a rope, then tie the rope with a bowline on a bight at the top of the ladder. Then if you need to, you can use the 8 to rappel down. Same as from the bucket.

 

[BC WetCoast]

ladders dont belong in treework.

dont be lazy.

Ever tried fruit pruning 20' fruit trees by just climbing? Tough to get to the tips. And a pole pruner is WAY too slow.

 

[woodchux]

I think that ladders are great for access....but horrible and deadly as a cutting platform.

 

[oldirty]

Ever tried fruit pruning 20' fruit trees by just climbing? Tough to get to the tips. And a pole pruner is WAY too slow.

i wasnt talking about orchard ladders. we have 2 on our trucks. i am talking about regular ladders that a painter or a roofer would use.

those dont really have a place, to me, in tree work.

maybe just maybe use one to get access into the tree but not to work from.

 

[groundsmgr]

ladders dont belong in treework.

dont be lazy.

APLUS:greenchainsaw:
Only time i used a ladder was in my high schools apple orchard.
Or my neighbors privet hedge

 

[Tree Raptor]

Descenders vs prusik (follow up)

put an aerial rescue kit together. heres what you need.

a throwline (12oz weight would be ideal)
saddle(nothing fancy, just somthing that gets your a** out of the air)
about 100' of rope
a set of spikes(dont need but good to have)

just use the drt method and tie a blakes hitch in your rope.

also make sure that you have someone on the ground that can throw a throwline good.

Well, I have to admit I was kind of shocked by some of the replies but do appreciate your candor and puttng myself in your shoes can understand why some feel that way regarding using ladders. In the 20 years that I have been taking down trees we have never kicked out a ladder or damaged one.
I know that some are against using ladders but I work 8 months a year (apr 1 thu end of Nov) (minus 3 weeks for showing draft horses) and I make between 90 and 100 myself in that 7months 3week time period and take off 4 months in winter and do nothing and from working with just a ladder (and 3rd party climber when needed) I am pretty happy with that. But now I would like to move forward and learn more now that I have a bucket truck. (ie. rigging, equipment, more safety and maybe even some easy climbing to start off with)


ntsarborist... I already have a nice saddle and use is daily while working in ladder. have 100 & 150' climbing ropes and have steel spikes that I never really tried.

I have a throw line but why would I need it in a rescue kit. I would just assume that if I always had 100'er with me in the bucket or ladder and a descender that is all I would need... unless of course bucket died right over wires or such then you would have to lower away from that and hence might need the throw bag/line to manuver you away from whatever. I have never seen how a rescue 8 descender is used, does anyone have a pic showing how you thread rope and how it's used.

what did you mean by the following statement: "just use the drt method and tie a blakes hitch in your rope" what is a drt method ?

also while I'm on the topic of new bucket truck... is there any reason why I can't / should not use my Saddles flip line to tie off to the bucket safety ring or is there a reason that I should be using the safety harness rig and it's strap that came with the unit. I'm not a big fan of those flat (fit thru) type buckles that their bucket harness has.

I Know someone on this site recommended a bongie (packaged) in plastc for bucket safety and it "opens" rips plastic if I were to fall out of bucket. Just need to know if I should be using anything specific to "tie into" the buckets safety ring.


thanks everyone....

 

[af7850]

first things first, a work positioning saddle is not designed to be used as a fall safety harness, and therefore should not be employed as one. Use a proper harness while operating your bucket truck, and invest in a good "rip stop"- type safety lanyard.

Beyond that, you ought not expect to be able to just jump into a saddle, tie in and go. I strongly suggest learning to climb proficiently on a DdRT / Blakes system before even thinking about using it to extricate from your bucket. There are just too many things that can go wrong when you are less than "second nature" comfortable with your gear.

You would be wise to consider very seriously the recommendations of the pros on this site. If self preservation is an instinct which you hold dear, find someone to literally teach you the ropes; otherwise you are certainly destined to become yet another casualty of our industry.

 

[oldirty]

sounds like a hack from a ladder is going to be a hack from the bucket. evolution baby, alright.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I think that ladders are great for access....but horrible and deadly as a cutting platform.

Yep, yep.:agree2:

 

[ntsarborist]

what did you mean by the following statement: "just use the drt method and tie a blakes hitch in your rope" what is a drt method ?

it is double rope technic. use a single rope, throw it over a strong crotch atleast 3 inches thick of limbs. bring the one end to you and tie yourself in on your saddle(leave about 2 foot from your buntline knot to the end of the rope), tie a blakes hitch onto your running end and finish off the rest of the slack in the rope with a figure eight knot. do you know what i mean?

 

[Tree Raptor]

Ddrt / Blakes

first things first, a work positioning saddle is not designed to be used as a fall safety harness, and therefore should not be employed as one. Use a proper harness while operating your bucket truck, and invest in a good "rip stop"- type safety lanyard.

Beyond that, you ought not expect to be able to just jump into a saddle, tie in and go. I strongly suggest learning to climb proficiently on a DdRT / Blakes system before even thinking about using it to extricate from your bucket. There are just too many things that can go wrong when you are less than "second nature" comfortable with your gear.

You would be wise to consider very seriously the recommendations of the pros on this site. If self preservation is an instinct which you hold dear, find someone to literally teach you the ropes; otherwise you are certainly destined to become yet another casualty of our industry.

Thanks for the response AF7850. You are the 2nd post that is suggesting using the Ddrt system to which i replied "I have no idea that that is or means". Can you elaborate.

Surprised that my saddle can't "double up" as a bucket harness and lanyard, I I'm curious why.

I did look up the Blakes knot on Sherrills and did see that it did list concerns and such with slippage and the use of a stopper knot. I did have a prusik loop made by a tree rope company using the suggested smaller rope than my 1/2" climbing rope) not sure what size the pursik is but remembered the spec was very strong. I would think that a prusik loop would have been the safest choice and kinda puzzled why no one suggested using it to rappelling down. I'm assuming the fig 8 dec is used ONLY for decending and needs one hand to control decent rate whereas a prusik only decents when you want it to and if you let go it will stop you. This is why I would guess the prusik would be the safest for a bigginer like me.

I guess until try and use a rescue figure 8 I will be able to see for myself the differences and advantages/disadvantages. I wil purchase a descender rescue fig 8 and try (obviously from just a few feet off the ground and work my way up to see how they work. Is there only one way to "thread" a fig 8 descender and if so can someone give me a site / picture or describe it.

I think I have someone who lives within a reasonable distance from me who is a "pro" and can show me some hands on but still would like to hear from you guys prior.

sending pics of my bucket truck early next week.
Thanks again

 

[woodchux]

Dude...You've got a lot of reading you need to do. Go ahead and get the book 'tree climbers companion' .it will teach you the most basic skill set that you should know to stay alive.