Diagnostics

[Treeman14]

This link will take you to the Hillsborough County Florida Extension Service website and the numerous testing services they offer. I'm sure many others offer similar services for your local areas. This is an excellent marketing tool to boost your sales, credibility, and professionalism. Many "arborists" often recommend fertilizing or spraying without haveing any clue about the true nature of a problem. I would encourage anyone who sells fertilization or disease management services to include some of these tests in their bid.

http://hillsborough.extension.ufl.edu/HomeHort/DIAGNOSTICS.HTM

 

[jason j ladue]

where's the link?

 

[Treeman14]

As fate would have it, I just opened the mail to see the latest Tree Services magazine. There, on page 8 is an article entitled, "What's Really Wrong With That Tree?"

I just skimmed through it, but its about diagnosing the right problem BEFORE prescribing a treatment. Exactly what I was getting at when I posted the above link.

 

[Treeman14]

Sorry, I forgot the link. I just edited the first post to include it.

 

[treeseer]

I would encourage anyone who sells fertilization or disease management services to include some of these tests in their bid.

I'd also recommend anyone who is NOT bidding fert to sell soil testing. It's quick and easy--basically scoop some dirt in a box and send it to a lab. Then learn to interpret the results--high school-level chemistry will enable you to get the big picture of the soil condition and recommend basic steps toward happier roots.

While you're on site, why not take care of the bottom half of the tree? The test is usually free. the counties are just branches of the state extension service, administered through land-grants like UF and ncsu:

http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/publications/Soilfacts/AG-439-30/

Soil analysis is a natural first place to start consulting--leaning on the state lab (usually free ) makes it nearly a no-brainer with little liability.

Great post, treeman!

 

[jason j ladue]

14, guy, great links. good stuff here today!

 

[Nickrosis]

Don't oversimplify the science of determining available and needed Nitrogen. There is no test to find the amount of available nitrogen in the soil. Considering it is the most needed nutrient following carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, doesn't that pose a diagnostic headache? No one knows the nitrogren "need" of trees either. Then again, is it a need or a want for trees beyond a minimum threshold of maintenance and survival?

 

[texasnative]

one can use the Kjeldahl method for nitrogen analysis in soils. when i was in college, i worked at the soils testing lab, using the Kjeldahl method for both forage and soils. in simple terms, it uses sulfuric acid to "digest" the sample on high heat. once the sample is digested, it is run through a mass spectrometer, which then displays the results for interpretation.

 

[vharrison2]

There is no test to find the amount of available nitrogen in the soil.


The lab we use has several, the most basic is under $ 7 with recommendations. We use A & L 954-972-3255. I think they are in the Ft. Liquordale, Fl area. Sent some a dead heart from a sable today along with soil. Very rare sables get sick here as they are hardy natives.

 

[Nickrosis]

Even so, it's an inference of the nitrogen in the soil. And further, the soil nitrogen is a volatile thing, always switching in and out of availability as it's absorbed and broken down. Even if there was a reliable way to know instantaneously what's in the soil, how do you know what you need?

 

[vharrison2]

Thats where the recommendations come in. The lab is focused on the soil in our zone and at some point we trust their recommendations. We also have a biologist on staff that confers with them. (We hired him as an Arborist and got the bonus of biologist!)

 

[Nickrosis]

Don't get me wrong, I fertilize trees. I'm questioning anyone who thinks they quantitatively know how much nitrogen is in the soil and how much the part of the landscape they are treating needs any additional nutrients, especially nitrogen.

 

[P_woozel]

I leave fertilization to those that specialize in it. Though I know that excessive or more than the tree needs to get by can make them to tasty for some bugs.

 

[texasnative]

Dig up a shovel full of topsoil. There should be at least five earthworms in that shovel full, if not more. If there are less than five, something is amiss in the soil (oftentimes nitrogen) Go to the lab from there. Earthworms are simply an indicator. Think of the soil as a microecosystem.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

soil science relating to arboriculture ,seems to be almost non existent over here ,for reasons i do not know ,ah well i do ,its all about ££££

 

[murphy4trees]

Well I have a lot to say about "fertilizing" trees... just not the time here...
Think about this though......
First a good SALESMAN sells tree fertilization using heavby salts NPK... which throws off the soil balance. This weakens the tree.. So now in come the insects and pathogens to take out the weak tree. So now the tree shows signs of stress and decline.. so again the good SALESMAN sells teratment with Cambistat... a growth regulator.. note this is the antithesis (and antidote) to Nitrogen, which casues the tree to grow more. The health benefits of Cambistat and other growth regulators are well established... When trees stop putting energy into growth they do all kinds of wonderful other things...
So what does that tell us about the use of Nitrogen in tree fertilization...

Petere Felix runs a multi-million dollar company, Tree Health Management, on Long Island, NY. He is clear abouth this issue as I have been for over 15 years... ANSI is behind the times for still recommending Nitrogen...

Now I guarentee (almost) ever person whom objects strongly to the above writing is SELLING tree fert. But they will adamantly state that the fact that they are making big $ on this bogus and harmful practice has nothing to do with their perspective.

Felix is working miracles with Cambistat, radial trenching and soil replacement, and innoculation with compost tea. Anyone interested in more info email or call me.

 

[texasnative]

MMM...Compost tea. Very good for the soil. And all of the little critters in the soil. And no salts to interfere with osmosis. As I mentioned before, the soil itself is a microecosystem with many beneficial organisms (how about bacteria which afix atmospheric nitrogen to the soil? Nematodes that prey on harmful insects. Worms that keep the soil aerated, just to name a few). When you fertilize the soil, you could be eliminating many beneficial organisms which the tree relies on to stay in good health. That ain't gonna happen with compost tea.

 

[Stumper]

I freely admit that I do not know the details on every square foot of soil in my area and I certainly do not know what a tree's actual Nitrogen needs are. Harris cites studies in which Nitrogen was the single biggest factor in vigorous growth (duh) and Shigo astutely points out theat vigorous growth does not necessarily equate to good health. I do know some general truths about my area's soil. It is primarily clay. It is Alkiline (which I can and do test). I know from past experience that Ferrous sulfate to raise soil acidity, limited doses of nitrogen along with P and K and trace minerals (particularly Iron, Manganese and sometimes Boron) helps chlorotic trees. I employ vertical mulching along with the stop-gap chemical concentrates in an effort to promote a healthy soil environment. Results have been good. A number of Birches with dieback are now thriving. I would like to know more about the details of each customer's yard but it isn't too hard to employ what works for immediate problems. If the trees look healthy I don't push fertilizer-I promote mulch.