Different Stumps?

[PB]

Okay, I need some help. I am looking for some info on the "firewood stump". I have heard people talking about how it will keep the log off the ground, but I have never seen one. The only felling technique I use leaves a flat stump with the hinge on the butt of the log. Can anyone tell me how this stump works?

I searched, but the word "firewood" brought up too many threads to sort through.

 

[2dogs]

Never heard of it.

 

[PB]

I haven't either until I moved to Maine.

 

[Metals406]

So, it keeps the tree connected to the stump?

 

[PB]

So, it keeps the tree connected to the stump?

Supposedly. Keeps it off the ground.

 

[Boleclimber]

I suspect what they mean is to use a very steep opening cut, I would say 80 degrees or more. When you fell the tree, the trunk will have little chance to apply sufficient pressure on the face cut and not brake the hinge.

The tree will remain attached to the stump and need to have the remaining hinge cut.

I was taught using a steep opening cut. It works good when there is little chance of a tree getting limb tied or hung up. In situations where I think the tree may hang, I use a lesser face cut, thus the hinge can be snap and the tree can roll through the branches as it falls.

 

[PB]

I suspect what they mean is to use a very steep opening cut, I would say 80 degrees or more. When you fell the tree, the trunk will have little chance to apply sufficient pressure on the face cut and not brake the hinge.

The tree will remain attached to the stump and need to have the remaining hinge cut.

I was taught using a steep opening cut. It works good when there is little chance of a tree getting limb tied or hung up. In situations where I think the tree may hang, I use a lesser face cut, thus the hinge can be snap and the tree can roll through the branches as it falls.

That is the impression i am getting but not positive. A steep angle would take a very high cut on the face unless you would use a bore cut.

I was falling some trees over the holiday and couldn't figure out what they were talking about.

 

[Boleclimber]

PB your description is correct. The hinge stays on the log.

Take a humbolt cut and turn it upside down. Instead of cutting a 45 degree cut from the stump to the log butt; cut a 70-80 degree cut on the log to the stump. It leaves a shallow face opening and dose not deduct board footage at the mill. The face is usually removed with the first slap at the mill; if not it is edged on off the first few boards.

 

[Boleclimber]

If you use this method of felling, it requires a bore cut into the heart of hardwoods and about 2" side cuts before you back cut. If you don't bore your heart or cut the sides you run a high risk of pull the heart or stripping the side of the log. Mills will deduct for that.

The correct way to make the cut is:
Place the saw slightly below your knee height, rip the face open to 10--15% of the tree diameter (30" tree equals a 3-4" opening). Then horizontal cut, at the stump level, to meet the end of your face cut. Cut the heart, sides (hardwoods). Now your back cut, either bore cut the back or use the traditional way.

The New England way is:
Cut the flat opening cut, Set the saw about knee height and cut the face cut. Both cuts never meet correct; then go for the back cut and hope for the best. When the tree starts falling run like hell!

 

[PB]

If you use this method of felling, it requires a bore cut into the heart of hardwoods and about 2" side cuts before you back cut. If you don't bore your heart or cut the sides you run a high risk of pull the heart or stripping the side of the log. Mills will deduct for that.

The correct way to make the cut is:
Place the saw slightly below your knee height, rip the face open to 10--15% of the tree diameter (30" tree equals a 3-4" opening). Then horizontal cut, at the stump level, to meet the end of your face cut. Cut the heart, sides (hardwoods). Now your back cut, either bore cut the back or use the traditional way.

The New England way is:
Cut the flat opening cut, Set the saw about knee height and cut the face cut. Both cuts never meet correct; then go for the back cut and hope for the best. When the tree starts falling run like hell!

Thanks! I have the running like hell part down pretty good. Almost got a limb through my noggin so I think I might invest in a helmet.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Wow, I wish I could make a tree levatate off the ground.

 

[Metals406]

If it's called a 'firewood notch', it's assumed the wood is dead standing. As we know, the fiber is more brittle, and not as reactionary to special faces or Dutchman techniques. The stringy holding nature of the fibers isn't there.

As far as leaving the butt on the stump... The other fellas are thinking along the same lines as myself. Get the top to hit first, and try to leave fiber to hold on the stump.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Around my area when loggers want the hinge to stay connected to the stump they use the "open face".

 

[Burvol]

Saw a decent sized chunk and throw it out infront a few feet up from the butt, that will keep it up for you.

 

[Zackman1801]

usually my open faced notches will keep the tree off the ground, but i usually cut my stumps low enough so that the tree is touching the ground. The open face notch combined with a bore cut and a stump thats about a foot tall will keep the end suspended off the ground for a ways, usually.

 

[smokechase II]

I don't know about your area

What I've been doing with dead Lodgepole to try and accomplish this objective.

Of course drop with the lean and to a lay with the least elevation loss possible. The smaller the angle of fall may extend the hinge holding ability.

1) Face usually at least 90 degrees. No possibility of breakage by narrow closing hinge.
2) Do a center bore from the face side to remove some of the center of the hinge.
3) Standard back-cut from the rear.
Slowly. Do Not bore out the back or strap.
A back-cut from the back allows you to feel the tree - this can result in the least cutting and therefore the slowest descent.
4) This could be barber chair inducing but perhaps:
Stop cutting and wedge the tree over. Lightly forcing the tree, with the most holding wood in place possible, may result in a longer holding hinge. Tap the wedge just to get things started.

{Open Face aficionados are probably all exited about 90 degree faces but throw them out the back door on their boring back-cut agenda.}

=============

Caveats:
My experience was I could not guarantee this would work on dead LP over 70 feet tall. Expect bigger and taller trees to come over with more force and be more likely to break wood.

With decent green wood, especially sap, success can be higher.

Your species mileage may vary.

*********

One can get into trouble expecting the hinge to hold the tree off the ground and as you happily limb your way along the tree could fall off the stump and smash your leg(s).
1) Check how solid the hinge is. Kick it etc.
2) Make a conscious decision based on your love of a healthy life how and perhaps which side to limb from, if at all.

==========

Consider placing a 4-5 ft long log just beyond the stump location to hold the log up if dead wood is not a strong enough of a hinge for you.

 

[forestryworks]

What I've been doing with dead Lodgepole to try and accomplish this objective.

Of course drop with the lean and to a lay with the least elevation loss possible. The smaller the angle of fall may extend the hinge holding ability.

1) Face usually at least 90 degrees. No possibility of breakage by narrow closing hinge.
2) Do a center bore from the face side to remove some of the center of the hinge.
3) Standard back-cut from the rear.
Slowly. Do Not bore out the back or strap.
A back-cut from the back allows you to feel the tree - this can result in the least cutting and therefore the slowest descent.
4) This could be barber chair inducing but perhaps:
Stop cutting and wedge the tree over. Lightly forcing the tree, with the most holding wood in place possible, may result in a longer holding hinge. Tap the wedge just to get things started.

{Open Face aficionados are probably all exited about 90 degree faces but throw them out the back door on their boring back-cut agenda.}

=============

Caveats:
My experience was I could not guarantee this would work on dead LP over 70 feet tall. Expect bigger and taller trees to come over with more force and be more likely to break wood.

With decent green wood, especially sap, success can be higher.

Your species mileage may vary.

*********

One can get into trouble expecting the hinge to hold the tree off the ground and as you happily limb your way along the tree could fall off the stump and smash your leg(s).
1) Check how solid the hinge is. Kick it etc.
2) Make a conscious decision based on your love of a healthy life how and perhaps which side to limb from, if at all.

==========

Consider placing a 4-5 ft long log just beyond the stump location to hold the log up if dead wood is not a strong enough of a hinge for you.

great post, sir

 

[Zackman1801]

you also have to make sure that its not just the hinge thats holding it up. as you move down the tree make sure as you cut the limbs on the underside that the tree does not move. sometimes the limbs will give you a false sense of the hinge being completely solid when in fact the limbs are helping stabilize it. and then when you cut those limbs off the tree tries to roll or drop forward off the stump. just watch your compression wood and make sure the tree is secure. like it was said, the tree isnt always going to stay on the stump every time, its just not possible.
On live trees leaving a bigger or thicker hinge is not always necessary. you can get a tree to stay on the stump with a regular hinge 10% of the trees total diameter in thickness. mine seem to do it just fine, even with pine which is more likely to snap off than say a green maple that has ply to it.

Forestry: What did you mean by throwing out the 90 degree notch when doing the bore cut agenda?

 

[forestryworks]

Forestry: What did you mean by throwing out the 90 degree notch when doing the bore cut agenda?

me? you mean smoke? i didn't say anything about a 90deg. notch...

 

[PB]

I think it is easier just to fall the tree the way I have been for the past 14 years.