Good Point
Brian/ Treeclimber165/Rocky/Skwerl has always tried to make a similar point about nylon storing pulling force to aid along with vehicle pull to get another stuck vehicle out of trouble. This really works!
My point was that leveraging comes form resistance to bending, not bending/stretching(like a stiffer line can be leveraged more around a turn for it resists the bending more etc.). Thereby, the hard wedge on the hard position of the wood gives all the leveraging/no relief of your effort (less the friction of the slide) compared to the play/relief in system of stretching and bending/ wedging not having this 'forgiveness'. To your point, elasticity in a flexxed spar can store pull to; as well as the line doing so. Though, i believe there will be some loss of your input force into the elasticity from friction/ scrubbing of the fibers of rope together against itself as you load the rope elasticity/stretch, and then again as elasticity re-leases/ rope shrinks back; and also similar phenomenon in the wood fibres of the spar from any flexxing. For, there is no perpetual motion machine, cuz each step/interchange must have a loss; usually from friction; producing heat, and re-turning it to the atmosphere, from which it came.
Another point/imagery made on this forum a number of times by Gypo; is that you just barely tickle a backcut alil'bit at a time to get the tree to fall; with most control(?). In my wierds, i say similar; that you walk the hinge to a point of failure, and then back off. Cutting after this point (if tree will fall on own) removes support. i think if tree will fall correctly on own, we want to bring it's support hinge strength, just barely below the spar's load.
To your present question; i think it matters when that extra pull from the elasticity of the rope (or spar) comes. i have a theory whereby i figure that there are (to this exameyenation); 3 stages to to hinging. Before "First Folding"; First Folding and after FF. Pulls/pushes before FF; can brace/secure and setup forces for FF. Pulls/pushes at FF set the hinge strength in response. Pulls/pushes (as well as cuts) after FF, take the power in hinge set at FF (in matching response/just below it); and weaken it/ take the same hinge machine from slow /powerful to faster/weaker! The speed can also build up to weaken hinge more/ increase leveraged loading in respect to the set hinge strength at FF. Now, we must expand that, to say FF, can take more than an instant in some cases, where extra push/pull might be needed to keep tree moving.
But, i think that a rope being pulled after FF (when tree will fall on own), or the elastic response of the rope pulling after FF, can weaken the hinge; just as more backcutting can; beyond the tickling to barely failing/ cutting or plinking the violin strings free 1 by 1 until just barely failing imagery! i believe in letting it work on it's own; if it will correctly. i think this is why some people have better L.U.C.K. (Labor Under Controlled Knowledge) with wedge(s); for as you say, a wedge will stop pushing at FF; whereas a groundie or rope elasticity can pull after FF; weakening hinge, causing faster folding. Faster from same machine, being weaker hinge. Now if it needs more 'inspiration' to maintain motion, it is either seized (dutched?) or FF is not complete.
So, this extra help you point to of the rope's elasticity can help hinge strength i believe at FF; but if the elastic recovery pulls after FF (given if tree will fall correctly on own); or your own hand pulls after FF (when hinge strength is set); i believe these actions, like more backcutting after FF can weaken the hinge. i think that adding force towards center/ gunned apex at FF "fakes" the hinge out, and sets it stronger; "thinking" it has more tree load than it has. For hinge strength is just a passive response of the load on it. But after FF, such pulls; become actually part of the load, increasing that load against the hinge.
All things all ways and always must act in balance/even the theory of relativity has a central/pivotal equals sign! When the loading is equal to the passive hinge support response (to the loading); there is no movemeant. Only when the support is less than (or more than) the loading is there movemeant; the movemeant acting to balance the formulae, by making up the differance. Whent he matching support is not there,teh spar as a free agent wanders from point to point/'port to port' like a sailor, until satiated and meeting it's equal and opposite/balancing the formulae once again!
At least, after looking at it for quiet a lil'bit; that is what i see!
:taped:
Brian/ Treeclimber165/Rocky/Skwerl has always tried to make a similar point about nylon storing pulling force to aid along with vehicle pull to get another stuck vehicle out of trouble. This really works!
My point was that leveraging comes form resistance to bending, not bending/stretching(like a stiffer line can be leveraged more around a turn for it resists the bending more etc.). Thereby, the hard wedge on the hard position of the wood gives all the leveraging/no relief of your effort (less the friction of the slide) compared to the play/relief in system of stretching and bending/ wedging not having this 'forgiveness'. To your point, elasticity in a flexxed spar can store pull to; as well as the line doing so. Though, i believe there will be some loss of your input force into the elasticity from friction/ scrubbing of the fibers of rope together against itself as you load the rope elasticity/stretch, and then again as elasticity re-leases/ rope shrinks back; and also similar phenomenon in the wood fibres of the spar from any flexxing. For, there is no perpetual motion machine, cuz each step/interchange must have a loss; usually from friction; producing heat, and re-turning it to the atmosphere, from which it came.
Another point/imagery made on this forum a number of times by Gypo; is that you just barely tickle a backcut alil'bit at a time to get the tree to fall; with most control(?). In my wierds, i say similar; that you walk the hinge to a point of failure, and then back off. Cutting after this point (if tree will fall on own) removes support. i think if tree will fall correctly on own, we want to bring it's support hinge strength, just barely below the spar's load.
To your present question; i think it matters when that extra pull from the elasticity of the rope (or spar) comes. i have a theory whereby i figure that there are (to this exameyenation); 3 stages to to hinging. Before "First Folding"; First Folding and after FF. Pulls/pushes before FF; can brace/secure and setup forces for FF. Pulls/pushes at FF set the hinge strength in response. Pulls/pushes (as well as cuts) after FF, take the power in hinge set at FF (in matching response/just below it); and weaken it/ take the same hinge machine from slow /powerful to faster/weaker! The speed can also build up to weaken hinge more/ increase leveraged loading in respect to the set hinge strength at FF. Now, we must expand that, to say FF, can take more than an instant in some cases, where extra push/pull might be needed to keep tree moving.
But, i think that a rope being pulled after FF (when tree will fall on own), or the elastic response of the rope pulling after FF, can weaken the hinge; just as more backcutting can; beyond the tickling to barely failing/ cutting or plinking the violin strings free 1 by 1 until just barely failing imagery! i believe in letting it work on it's own; if it will correctly. i think this is why some people have better L.U.C.K. (Labor Under Controlled Knowledge) with wedge(s); for as you say, a wedge will stop pushing at FF; whereas a groundie or rope elasticity can pull after FF; weakening hinge, causing faster folding. Faster from same machine, being weaker hinge. Now if it needs more 'inspiration' to maintain motion, it is either seized (dutched?) or FF is not complete.
So, this extra help you point to of the rope's elasticity can help hinge strength i believe at FF; but if the elastic recovery pulls after FF (given if tree will fall correctly on own); or your own hand pulls after FF (when hinge strength is set); i believe these actions, like more backcutting after FF can weaken the hinge. i think that adding force towards center/ gunned apex at FF "fakes" the hinge out, and sets it stronger; "thinking" it has more tree load than it has. For hinge strength is just a passive response of the load on it. But after FF, such pulls; become actually part of the load, increasing that load against the hinge.
All things all ways and always must act in balance/even the theory of relativity has a central/pivotal equals sign! When the loading is equal to the passive hinge support response (to the loading); there is no movemeant. Only when the support is less than (or more than) the loading is there movemeant; the movemeant acting to balance the formulae, by making up the differance. Whent he matching support is not there,teh spar as a free agent wanders from point to point/'port to port' like a sailor, until satiated and meeting it's equal and opposite/balancing the formulae once again!
At least, after looking at it for quiet a lil'bit; that is what i see!
:taped:
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