Do You Use a Work Order?

[KentuckySawyer]

I currently don't have customers sign a "work order" before I do their job, and I need advice on how to approach this.

Who uses "work orders"? What type of protections should I try to provide myself? Are they typically a part of your estimate, or is it a separate document altogether?

 

[Stumper]

I fill out a bid sheet which defines the work based upon our converstion/my recommendations. We each get a copy. If someone wants to exchange signatures that is fine but I find that if you do what you say and expect others to do likewise things go quite well.

 

[tinman44]

well i also cant decide on this we want to have receipt book for when they pay us and job is done. want a 2piece bid sheet so in court we can say they knew what the job was and what the bid was. then a contract to start work. my partner is deputy and he knows that people don't always pay for work done. mostly because he serves warrants. so i will be checking back in this thread for suggestions as well. should these all be in one? or should they be separate or some combined?

 

[xander9727]

I use an estimate sheet that outlines the terms. You can pick up proposal forms form office depot, office max, staples, etc. that come in duplicate or triplicate. These are a simple format and a good starting point for designing your own forms. You definately need something in writing with their signature if you want to try and collect after they refuse to pay. People who steal will usually lie.

 

[treeman82]

IMO any contract is only as good as the people who sign it.

As far as actual contracts go, I like just using e-mail. You can make modifications all day long if you want. We don't want this done, we want to add that, etc. You will have unlimitted copies, and I find it to be easier. However I am also a recovering internet addict

 

[hobby climber]

Don't forget the fine print...

Remember you are on the ground doing your quote. If you and your customer agree to a price for a removal your bound by that for the most part. Now what if that simple job turns into something much bigger and more expensive than you agreed to??? You may want to think about an escape clause that allows you to get payed for the work you have done up to this point and you can negotiate a new price with customer after getting a better look at the tree and its structural issues. ie)- from ground it looks like it can be blocked down no problem but once in the tree you see that its unstable and you now need a crane! $$$. That kinda thing.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I like using a 2 part form. Too many problems can come up going form memory if acceptance occurs weeks down the line.

My first year, I got signatures, but found that there never was a payment problem. So I quit going for signatures. I just sign my name to the form.

Print shops can charge up to $100 for 200 two part forms, but Staples and other places are 25% that price.

So, I use a two part form. Minimal small print. I leave a copy or they accept. My form is an estimate proposal. On it, it states that the form, after acceptance and completion, becomes their billing. I send no bill. That's their bill because payment is due on completion. But I allow a few days for mailing and charge a $50 late fee for payment after 10 days past completion.

One option I considered, is a 3 part form. I sign the top and keep the white, leaving the yellow and pink. Then the homeowners can sign the yellow and mail or drop off the pink form to me. That way we could each have a signed copy without me running for it.

I rarely take signatures, but will for work over $700 or where down payments and materials are involved. Likewise where potential for damage becomes apparent.

Anything involving landscaping - I'm required by law to get a full contract with signatures, completion date, materials, addresses, etc..

 

[treeman82]

Around here excavation contractors have clauses for when, and if they hit rock. Possibly we as arborists when doing removals should have a clause in there for if and when we hit concrete?

 

[TreeJunkie]

I see alot of good points here! I have a form which i will occasionally require signatures. This usually only will be needed if: Large project, Equipment on the turf, stump grinding near under ground utility/irrigation, or if i just don't trust the client.
My form is a waiver/acceptance of proposal.

M.D. Vaden, I do like the idea of the form which you are using. Would you/anyone mind sharing such forms for the rest of us to learn from?

Thanks guys!

 

[Koa Man]

I have them sign a contract for MY protection, not theirs. One of the most important things I have in small print is that they have the legal right to have the trees pruned or removed. You don't want to be the guy in the middle of a dispute concerning the ownership of the trees you just pruned or removed.

 

[NeTree]

Contract. ALWAYS get a contract.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Ditto that. Get it on paper, with a signature.

 

[NickfromWI]

hobbyclimber, I don't think that'd reflect very highly on you if you came down halfway through a tree to tell the client you want more money. If you say you can do it for 2000, you better get it done!

Now, finding concrete is another thing. IMO, it's appropriate to charge more for junk like that.

And about the work orders/invoices. Spend an hour on the computer and you can come up with a nice invoice that is custom made with your logo and name and all that jazz, then take it to kinkos and they'll make the triplicate invoices for you. Cost is a little more, but the professionalism is wayyyyyyy more!

love
nick

 

[jemclimber]

Does anyone have a copy of their contract they would like to share?

 

[glens]

So, hobbyclimber, if the work goes easier than you'd thought, you give a price break?

 

[TreeJunkie]

hobbyclimber, I don't think that'd reflect very highly on you if you came down halfway through a tree to tell the client you want more money. If you say you can do it for 2000, you better get it done!

Now, finding concrete is another thing. IMO, it's appropriate to charge more for junk like that.


love
nick

I completely agree. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and get it done. Why should your mistake(the bidder's) affect the customers wallet. If you'd told them it would have been more in the get go they may have chosen differently.
I find it absolutely unproffesional to act in the manner which hobby is suggesting.

 

[tinman44]

well my opinion on this matter is this. you should price a job for this kind of thing. if you cant tell for sure exactly what it will take or how job will go(not likely) then throw in extra. i have done a few jobs and added 50 bucks for chains and what a suprise i found a chain in the center of a 30'' tree.

 

[hobby climber]

NickformWI, Glens & treejunkie, I agree with what you say for the most part. What if a situation comes up where you give a quote from the ground but once in the tree you realize that the tree has major structural issued and is unsafe to take down the way you planed and quoted for. Two years ago I quoted a removal of a large maple tree. Had work order signed & everything. The only concern was a garage under the tree 8 feet from trunk. I'm thinking climb, rig, redirect, chunk down with block & porta wrap...simple. Once aloft, I noticed that two of the three leads as well as the trunk had water in them. The more I looked around the more structural problems I found that were not visible from the ground. I could not rig the tree for removal because it did not have the strength to support the rigging. Also, I was not willing to risk my neck or take a chance on having part of the tree fall on the garage. I climbed down and explained the situation to the customer and recommended another company that had a bucket truck. He understood and was good enough to let me out of the contract. I got lucky that time but he could have held me to the contract and I would have had to hire a bucket crew to do the work that I wasn't able to do. A lesson well learned. I declined to take any money from the customer because I didn't finish the job , although he did offer to pay me for the work I did do. I still think its a good idea to have a separate form with a clause on it that would get you out of a situation like the one mentioned above or other unusual situation like cement in trees & that kind thing. Just my opinion. In regards to glens question about giving customers a price break if the job goes easier than I thought, YES I do. My work ethic is this: "I do the best I can on my current job because it represents my resume for my next job".

 

[Stumper]

Hobby, On a couple of occassions I have ha dto come down and explain that I can't do the tree. I apologize and don't charge for what may have already been done. There has never been a problem. It is true that I seldom do signed contracts but that isn't truly relevant. (parol contracts are fully as binding as written ones-they are simply harder to prove.-With my written bid they are well on their way to proving that a contract existed.) There is a principle in the law which is consistent with justice- to sue someone there has to be a loss or damages of some kind. While failure to complete a contract in a timely manner or failure to perform the obligations of a contract to the specified standards CAN result in a loss to the other party,in cases where no actual damages exist and no consideration(money) has been recieved there is no real basis for suit or contract enforcement (unless a performance clause was in the contract to begin with). If I tell Joe that I'll remove his tree 2 weeks from Tuesday barring the unexpected, show up on the day and start climbing only to find that the tree is unsafe, come down and say "I cannot do it safely"-Joe hasn't been injured. I can't get very far sueing over cancelled contracts that I never started. Neither can Joe-if he never paid for anything and nothing was damaged by me it is simply over.

Having said all that-I absolutely HATE backing away from a job I agreed to and only do it when I'm unable to make things work. Consequently, it seldom happens.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

M.D. Vaden, I do like the idea of the form which you are using. Would you/anyone mind sharing such forms for the rest of us to learn from?

No problem...

But it's a very simple form.

Another arborist here, the man that initiated me into business, started his contract with one simple line:

"We propose to do the following work in a professional and workmanlike manner"

Then I just have a lot of open space to write, two columns of horizontal lines.

The last version had a little box where I wrote in tiny font, several items that I don't routinely carry with me, especially for the landscape work. Suppose I needed to bring extra cones, or whatever - I write circle that tool in the box so I don't forget and waste a trip running back and forth.

At the top is the name address and home, cell and work phone spaces for the client.

I added a space for directions so I record and look at the same location on the sheet every time.

Above the "professional and workmanlike manner" line; I added this on my new version:

"THIS PAGE WILL BE THE FINAL BILL AT COMPLETION. Final payment due upon completion. A $50 late fee will be charged for payment not delivered to M.D. Vaden within 10 days of completion. Verbal authorization considered as agreement to abide by all terms on this page."

And this - in tiny font 7 or 8 is at the bottom 1.5" of the form:

THE LANDSCAPE CONTRACTORS BOARD IS AT 503-986-6561 / 235 UNION STREET NE, SALEM, OR, 97301 / WWW.LCB.STATE.OR.US. NO GUARANTEE OFFERED OTHER THAN SPECIFIED. COMPLETION IS AS M.D. VADEN’S SCHEDULE & WEATHER PERMIT OR NEAR ADDED COMPLETION DATE. IN RESOURCE SHORTAGE, M.D. VADEN CAN END THIS AGREEMENT PRIOR TO STARTING AND REFUND DEPOSIT. M.D. VADEN IS EMPLOYED TO DO HORTICULTURE AS ART BASED ON AND INCLUDING TECHNOLOGY AND HAS FREEDOM TO SUBSTITUTE SOLUTIONS TO COMPLETE THIS PROJECT, CLOSELY MEETING THE INTENT OF PROJECT DESIGN AND THE OFFER TO WORK IN A WORKMANLIKE MANNER - A NEED TO RESPOND TO SHORTAGES, PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED WHILE THE PROJECT IS IN PROGRESS. THE CUSTOMER SUPPORTS USING THE OREGON LANDSCAPE CONTRACTORS BOARD FOR MEDIATION. IF PLANTS ARE SUBSTITUTED, M. D. VADEN MAY ALTER PLANT SIZES TO KEEP THE OVERALL PLANT EXPENDITURE NEAR THE SAME. THIS CONTRACT IS TAILORED FOR PURCHASES FROM THE 3 WHOLESALE NURSERIES CLOSEST TO WASHINGTON CO.. IF WHOLESALE PLANTS AREN’T AVAILABLE, ADDITIONAL COST OF SUBSTITUTES FROM OTHER NURSERIES WILL BE ADDED TO THE FINAL PAYMENT, LIKEWISE WITH MATERIALS - SUBSTITUTE COSTS NOT TO EXCEED $100 PER EACH $1000 OF CONTRACT. CUSTOMERS ARE RESPONSIBLE TO MARK IRRIGATION SYSTEMS, SUPPLY LINES THAT UTILITIES WILL NOT IDENTIFY AND BURIED SEPTIC SYSTEMS - ANY, IF NOT IDENTIFIED, WILL REPAIRED BY THE CUSTOMER. CUSTOMERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROPER IRRIGATION. REMOVAL OF PLANTS DOESN’T INCLUDE STUMP REMOVAL UNLESS ADDED IN WRITING. PIPES AND HARDWARE UNDERGROUND IN STUMPS, ROOT SYSTEMS TO BE REMOVED, SHALL BE REPAIRED AT CUSTOMER EXPENSE. PRECISION IN LANDSCAPE INSTALLATION IS TO A DEGREE FLEXIBLE, UNLIKE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION.

I know there are a couple of type errors, but not on my forms. I corrected spelling before printing the proof for the printer.

I can't eradicate some lines. For example, the Oregon landscape laws require a statement of completion date OR a statement about it.

The particular vocabulary of this final paragraph gives me enormous versatility and flexibility. If means I can do professional standards but deviate if I feel I need to do so with integrity and honesty. I spent hours revising the final paragraph.