Does modifying exceed the manufacture specs.....

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RaisedByWolves said:
You got Some big pockets.....


Lake, can you simply remove the shields or are the unshielded a better bearing?

Essentially the same bearing. You can remove the sheild, but they are metal and not quite as easy to get off as the plastic/rubber versions (some are real pain). You do have to remove the crank though, so you may as well replace the bearings.

The problem was that the combustion and other crap slowly got into the bearing, but coudn't get out, so it built up against the seal (particuarly on the flywheel side). Bearings running in a slurry of carbonised grit have a limited life... Almost all I see are noisy from wear and need to be chucked anyhow.
 
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ok. here is an overview of what i have found in my abuse testing of some modified saws. this applies to all brands. most of this only applies to the woods port. a race saw is a diff ball game.

clutch: i have not seen any issues even with the 026 i build that i had set to 17,500 RPM. even a modified 044 with a sloppy worn out clutch did great.

bearings: at 40:1 fuel mix i have not had any trouble at all.

crank: again no troble, no signs of heating up, no deformation of the connecting rod.

pistons: seem to take a heck of a beating! the baileys pistons are doing just as good as the OEM so far.

cylinders: hold up to the RPM and heat like a champ. no plating loss, no abnormal wear. even at extreme RPMs.

cases: no problems with cases in good condition. no signs of heat damage, no abnormal discoloration. no pitting or other defects found.

mufflers: no issues. cooling improved greatly in all cases.

overall saw life: same or better than stock. mainly due to improved cooling, greater amount of fuel/oil entering saw, improved flow out of saw. work it hard!
 
Lakeside53 said:
Sorry for the edits to the original. Messed up and went back... and it got bigger.

To answer your question:

You get nothing for free. It stresses the crap out of it, and at some RPM, things will come unhinged (I'm not talking about 13->14K here). Max rpm should be seen as reasonably sacred (unless you're just racing and understand the risks). Main bearing failure is a common problem from over speeding.

Oh yes, all you guys slapping big bore kits and over speeding your 044 - make sure you don't have the shielded crank bearings... Rip those out and replace them with the updated unshielded versions, while you still have a saw.

If you have to mod, go for increases in the torque band rather then WOT.

Thanks Lake, good info there. Modding sounds like it could be a great hobby for those that are really, really into saws just like those that are into cars. Me, I'm a slowpoke on the road and and my ole saws cut as fast as I feel like picking them up and down between cuts. No speed demon here but I do like things to last, like me, hope I last another 48 years and Ultra you hush on my ole hip, you heathen,lol......
 
NWCS said:
ok. here is an overview of what i have found in my abuse testing of some modified saws. this applies to all brands. most of this only applies to the woods port. a race saw is a diff ball game.

clutch: i have not seen any issues even with the 026 i build that i had set to 17,500 RPM. even a modified 044 with a sloppy worn out clutch did great.

bearings: at 40:1 fuel mix i have not had any trouble at all.

crank: again no troble, no signs of heating up, no deformation of the connecting rod.

pistons: seem to take a heck of a beating! the baileys pistons are doing just as good as the OEM so far.

cylinders: hold up to the RPM and heat like a champ. no plating loss, no abnormal wear. even at extreme RPMs.

cases: no problems with cases in good condition. no signs of heat damage, no abnormal discoloration. no pitting or other defects found.

mufflers: no issues. cooling improved greatly in all cases.

overall saw life: same or better than stock. mainly due to improved cooling, greater amount of fuel/oil entering saw, improved flow out of saw. work it hard!

Good info there as well. Good post. Between your post and Lakes post it leaves the owner with a decision based mostly on his own likes and thats what it is all about. Question well answered by you and Lake both...
 
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THALL when he was younger driving the car........
 
04ultra said:
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THALL when he was younger driving the car........

Yup that ole car had a top speed of 35mph, perfect for me. Somtimes down hill though I would use the break,lolol
 
NWCS said:
ok. here is an overview of what i have found in my abuse testing of some modified saws. this applies to all brands. most of this only applies to the woods port. a race saw is a diff ball game.

clutch: i have not seen any issues even with the 026 i build that i had set to 17,500 RPM. even a modified 044 with a sloppy worn out clutch did great.

bearings: at 40:1 fuel mix i have not had any trouble at all.

crank: again no troble, no signs of heating up, no deformation of the connecting rod.

pistons: seem to take a heck of a beating! the baileys pistons are doing just as good as the OEM so far.

cylinders: hold up to the RPM and heat like a champ. no plating loss, no abnormal wear. even at extreme RPMs.

cases: no problems with cases in good condition. no signs of heat damage, no abnormal discoloration. no pitting or other defects found.

mufflers: no issues. cooling improved greatly in all cases.

overall saw life: same or better than stock. mainly due to improved cooling, greater amount of fuel/oil entering saw, improved flow out of saw. work it hard!


Boy this thread sure slid into obscurity fast....

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with your findings here.

No offense, but you're not exactly an impartial party here....and I can't imagine anyone in your position saying anything to the contrary that would tend to ruin their business modding chainsaws.

No......I'm going to guess that modding chainsaw engines is no different than modding car engines....when one starts boring out cylinders and increasing rpms and the like, it increases horsepower but weakens the engine overall.....effectively exceeding the intended design operating specifications.

That is one reason why drag engines and other racecar engines generally only last one race (day) before needing an entire engine overhaul.
 
coveredinsap said:
Boy this thread sure slid into obscurity fast....

No......I'm going to guess that modding chainsaw engines is no different than modding car engines....when one starts boring out cylinders and increasing rpms and the like, it increases horsepower but weakens the engine overall.....effectively exceeding the intended design operating specifications.

That is one reason why drag engines and other racecar engines generally only last one race (day) before needing an entire engine overhaul.

How do you come to that conclusion, Ben did make the statement that "a race saw is a diff ball game. "

Modding car engines to race dose not tremendously shorten TBO (time before overhaul) time, in fact in most cases, using a stock engine to do the same work as a modified car engine , the modded engine will out last the stock, simply because of the workmanship and better quality parts then stock,(just take a 5 angle valve seat compared to 3 on a stock engine for one),,,,,,,,

Top fuel cars need to be basically tore down every pass,,,,,, I'm sure there are saws on nitro that need the same treatment?

To take a lesson from Aviation engines, a simplified overview would be to take 2 cubic inches per every HP to make a 1000 hour TBO time, detuning engines so to speak for the sake of reliability and longevity,(the EPA and OSHA never had there say in avation engines, needing performance mods.)

Piston aircraft engines built for fighters had a hard time making a 300 hour TBO

It's quite logical to believe that a good job at "woods - porting" a saw engine will add life over the hot running stock and add to the usability as it has more HP per pound
 
coveredinsap said:
Boy this thread sure slid into obscurity fast....

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with your findings here.

No offense, but you're not exactly an impartial party here....and I can't imagine anyone in your position saying anything to the contrary that would tend to ruin their business modding chainsaws.

No......I'm going to guess that modding chainsaw engines is no different than modding car engines....when one starts boring out cylinders and increasing rpms and the like, it increases horsepower but weakens the engine overall.....effectively exceeding the intended design operating specifications.

That is one reason why drag engines and other racecar engines generally only last one race (day) before needing an entire engine overhaul.

You don't read very well, do you sap?

If you reread Ben's post, pay attention to the second line, where he wrote, "...a race saw is a diff ball game."

What does that mean to you?

Do you know what a woods port is?
How many saws have you modified?
How many modified saws do you own?
What is your long term experience with a modified saw?

Lastly, why do you feel you are qualified to make the statements you have? Aren't you simply a carpenter? ;)
 
wow this thread is still going

I personally see modding a saw strickly a personal choice. Just like cars, guns or anything else some enjoy taking them to the limit. I for one have never used a modded saw but thats not to say I wouldn't want to, in fact I'd love to just to see what all the talk is about. I agree with Lake foremost however, nothing is for free, more you get out of something the more you risk harming it. On the other hand opening up a muffler I can't see hurting anything. I think in fact that would help the life of a engine allowing it to breath easier. RPM control seems to still be the deciding factor to watch concerning modding. Seems to me if you can increase the torque while maintaining safe RPM levels the mod may well be worth it and not harm anything. If the RPM levels have to go well beyond what the design of the engine was made to stand, to get the power increase, I'd say the mod is not worth the risk in damging the engine. That is providing you want the full life the engine was designed for. If power is the name of the game then risks play little part for those that want it no matter what. Modding saws will always be around as well as arguing over them. Gotta admit its a good topic to discuss indeed.
 
hey sap, if you wanted more proof stop by my shop sometime. you can run my woods port 036 pro then i will strip it down and show you the guts of it.
heck anybody that wants to stop by and demo the saw can get the same offer. that 036 is beating stock 044s every time. and it is my main saw when im out on a cutting job. also gets plenty of firewood duty.
 
whats the matter sappy.. afraid to see a real saw? might make you piss your pants to see that much power in a Stihl!
 

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