Does sharpening angle matter?

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

Now that I have your attention, but before the war starts, let me clarify. Round file only. If a chain ships sharpened at a 35 deg angle, but I decided to waste some time and reshape it to 30deg for some reason, will it cut just as well as a chain that was 30deg from the factory? I'm not asking if 30 is better than 35, I'm just wondering if chains have any intrinsic angle that each cutter design works best at, or if the angle is totally independent

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I don't believe so. At least in my experience, whether it's stihl, oregon, archer, or whatever other brand chain I've sharpened, they all seem to cut about the same when I sharpen them to the way I like them. Some just last longer than others.

The harder the steel, the more acute the angles of the steel can be and keep an edge though. Stihl seems to hold up the best IMO, Oregon is not far behind, Archer seems comparably soft to those two and does not like sharper angles as much. Tends to dull faster in my experience. I honestly don't pay attention to what angle they come from thel factory with though...they may all be the same for all I know.

I know they cut better after a few sharpening though, that's for sure.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I have never "degreed" a tooth after round filing- if it looks good enough and cuts right enough, it is good enough for me.
The difference between 30 and 35 degrees for most users will be barely perceivable- if noticed at all.
Drop that degree of cut too deep in the gullet and miss the top plate- then the chain will be dull- that is far more common of a freehand filing mistake than 5 degrees here or there.
Some people get hung up on angles and shapes, just like some people spit polish chainsaw cases. The chains with wear indicator marks top of the top plates are handy for judging an angle, but sometimes top plate tips need another stroke more than the trailing edge.

 

[AKTrailDog]

In regards to your specific question of going from 35 to 30, I'd say not a big deal. I sharpen all my chain, regardless of cutter type at 30 bc it's a good median. Usually gonna fall within the 25-35. There are so many different types of chain out there you can really open a can of worms/discussions about it.

Another answer is yes, each chain is specifically designed to cut a certain way with their corresponding angles from the manufacturer but in the end are you going to notice a difference? Probably not most times.

Then again, depends on what type of cutting you're doing? Ripping boards, chainsaw carving or just plain old bucking firewood. You can rip boards with a chain at an angle of 35 but I wouldn't do it. Very taxing on a saw overall.

Simple answer, go for it. See how it does and if you notice a difference. You can always change the angle the next time you sharpen the chain. Figure out what you like best for your situation. Again, I like mine at 30 and I can make them pretty aggressive at that with proper depth gauges tolerances and hold an edge for a long time. This also has to do with how I treat my chains and what species I normally cut.

 

[Mike Kunte]

Most manufacturers grind their chains for "general" use, since they don't cater for each person's specific use. So there is leeway in the angles. Find the ones that work for your specific application, and stick with them. The key is accuracy and consistency. If grinding at 27.35 degrees works for you, then do it every time. Additionally if your depth gauges are properly maintained, your chain will cut smoothly too.
Hope this helps!
Mike

 

[mountainlake]

I don't think you'll find much difference in cutting with 25 30 35 angles. My grinder has been set at 30 for 40 years. Steve

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

Ok this mostly aligns with what I figured. I'm just bucking hardwood all day, so I doubt the details matter for me. Someday I'll have a mill but that's a whole nother ballgame I'm not worried about.

Only reason I really ask is I have like 8 loops of chain for 3 bars that I got used and have no idea what to sharpen to. And the single new chain I own happens to claim it wants a 25deg angle and 10deg off level

 

[Philbert]

It depends . . .

If you mount your chains in a test fixture, and precisely measure performance with calibrated instruments, you will absolutely see significant differences in a controlled experiment, with all other variables removed (too many qualifiers there?). In day-to-day wood cutting, you many not notice.

I have frequently suggested that folks buy 3, identical chains, and sharpen one to 25°, one to 30°, and one to 35° , and try them side-by-side to see if they notice any differences in the type of cutting that they do, with their saws and their wood. Even a 10% increase in speed might not make a practical difference to someone who is a casual woodcutter, and who is actually only running the saw 15% of their time in the woods. For production cutters, or situations where a fast cut is necessary, that could be very important. Or, if you just like performance!

So experiment with the chains you have.

25° is normally recommended as optimized for hard or frozen woods.
30° is normally recommended as general for a variety woods.
35° is normally recommended as optimized for soft woods.

As @Mike Kunte notes: depth gauge settings are important too!

There is no reason why you can't have different chains for different cutting situations! No one plays golf with just one club! Your socket set came with more than one socket!

What a lot of people overlook is that the 'top plate angle' (e.g. 30°) is also setting the bevel angle for the side plate cutting edge: the part that does the heavy work of chopping through the wood fibers. So it is more than just the angle of entry.

Philbert

 

[Kenskip1]

I wood have to say that it all depends on what you are cutting. If you are chewing on say some Oak or another hard wood then you would need that sharper edge of the 35 degree angle. If you were cutting some sort of a soft wood like Pine of Hemlock then the 30 degree angle. Being a softer wood you would not require that 35 degree angle. Personally, in my opinion is the less of an angle then the longer cutting time you will have. Granted that you will not have the sharper edge of a 35 degree angle but you will have an edge that lasts a bit longer. Sort of like a double edge sward.

 

[Mike Kunte]

@the OP!

Here is one of the best videos I have seen on grinding angles. Each aspect is properly covered, and its effect on the cut and on the cutter explained. Enjoy!



Mike

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

Wow now that's my kind of reference. Assuming it's correct, most of it makes sense. A few bits lost me, it moves fast, but I'll watch it again when I'm not supposed to be working lol

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

But it was nice to finally get an idea of why on earth some chains want to be filled at an angle

 

[Ax-man]

Excellent vid , loved watching it . Thanks for posting it Mike. Just to answer the OP question about top plate angles , not much difference between 30 or 35 degrees. I always liked 30 degrees for a work saw it seemed to hold an edge just a little better in dirty cutting conditions like stump cuts. Getting the correct side plate angle and profile along with the proper depth gauge settings correct play a much more major role in how a chain will perform . The vid illustrates this point.

 

[KASH]

I sharpen my chains at 25 degrees for frozen wood or 30 or 35 for summer.Full chisel chain seems to stay sharper in winter with 25 degrees.
Kash

 

[Volund]

Theoretically it matters a lot, but out in the woods it either cuts or it dont. 30/30 and sharp is a good starting point for the wood harvest.
The sharper the quicker dull, so if you have a powerful chainsaw like a 50cc you dont want to make it too edged.

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

Cool, sounds like I'll be knocking all my chains back down to 25-30 deg, seeing as it's exclusively hardwood

 

[Ted Jenkins]

It depends . . .

If you mount your chains in a test fixture, and precisely measure performance with calibrated instruments, you will absolutely see significant differences in a controlled experiment, with all other variables removed (too many qualifiers there?). In day-to-day wood cutting, you many not notice.

I have frequently suggested that folks buy 3, identical chains, and sharpen one to 25°, one to 30°, and one to 35° , and try them side-by-side to see if they notice any differences in the type of cutting that they do, with their saws and their wood. Even a 10% increase in speed might not make a practical difference to someone who is a casual woodcutter, and who is actually only running the saw 15% of their time in the woods. For production cutters, or situations where a fast cut is necessary, that could be very important. Or, if you just like performance!

So experiment with the chains you have.

25° is normally recommended as optimized for hard or frozen woods.
30° is normally recommended as general for a variety woods.
35° is normally recommended as optimized for soft woods.

As @Mike Kunte notes: depth gauge settings are important too!

There is no reason why you can't have different chains for different cutting situations! No one plays golf with just one club! Your socket set came with more than one socket!

What a lot of people overlook is that the 'top plate angle' (e.g. 30°) is also setting the bevel angle for the side plate cutting edge: the part that does the heavy work of chopping through the wood fibers. So it is more than just the angle of entry.

Philbert

I would that is exactly right for most. The only thing that I would add is that for dirty hard woods I make the gullet a little less and the cutting edge a little more blunt. One will have to try a small variation to get chain perfect. Thanks

 

[dmb2613]

I have mainly firewood cutters that bring chains in to be sharpened, I do all at 25 degrees

 

[Cliff R]

"I don't think you'll find much difference in cutting with 25 30 35 angles. My grinder has been set at 30 for 40 years. Steve"

+2

My vote is for 30 degrees. For about 10 years I had a bar mounted file guide, and played around some with that deal. Overall 30 degrees is a very good place to be and has served me very well for over 4 decades now. I'm still cutting upwards of 100 cords a year between me, my brother and nephew, and even though I've moved toward smaller saws and semi-chisel, I still file all of them at 30 degrees and get excellent results in the woods and long cutter life.

As it relates to this topic I "touch-up" the chains on all my saws at every fill-up. I don't carry extra chains these days, re-fuel, or sharpen in the field, I carry extra saws. No less than 4 saws at any outing, razor sharp, fueled and ready to go. If I hit something or they quit cutting well I just toss them aside and grab another saw.

At the end of every outing my saws get cleaned up, sharpened, topped off with fuel/oil and ready to go. ALL sharpening is done in the big shop vise and by hand, much easier to do a perfect job there vs the tailgate of the truck........Cliff

 

[Mike Kunte]

"I don't think you'll find much difference in cutting with 25 30 35 angles. My grinder has been set at 30 for 40 years. Steve"

+2

My vote is for 30 degrees. For about 10 years I had a bar mounted file guide, and played around some with that deal. Overall 30 degrees is a very good place to be and has served me very well for over 4 decades now. I'm still cutting upwards of 100 cords a year between me, my brother and nephew, and even though I've moved toward smaller saws and semi-chisel, I still file all of them at 30 degrees and get excellent results in the woods and long cutter life.

As it relates to this topic I "touch-up" the chains on all my saws at every fill-up. I don't carry extra chains these days, re-fuel, or sharpen in the field, I carry extra saws. No less than 4 saws at any outing, razor sharp, fueled and ready to go. If I hit something or they quit cutting well I just toss them aside and grab another saw.

At the end of every outing my saws get cleaned up, sharpened, topped off with fuel/oil and ready to go. ALL sharpening is done in the big shop vise and by hand, much easier to do a perfect job there vs the tailgate of the truck........Cliff

This is decades of experience talking here! Really good tip! Thanks, Cliff!