Does your stove gobble up more wood than my fireplace?

[pennsywoodburnr]

Since burning full time in the fireplace I've had this question a lot on my mind. A quick background story is in order here. Back when I had my full time and part time job we used to heat mostly with kerosene (I know, I know....you guys can kill me later for admitting that) mainly because it was convenient and the wife didn't have to constantly tend one of those flat grates in the fireplace while she was taking care of our baby. We still burned on the weekend when I was home and could tend to it myself, but we tore through wood like there was no tomorrow. Fast forward now to this year. After learning that the part time job was ending, and knowing I'd be hard pressed to afford anything but the basics, I made a couple cheap investments. Scooped up a fiskars x-27 from bailey's (and sold off the old maul so I could process more rounds) and purchased a grate wall of fire grate to replace the old flat one. Couldn't have been happier with either purchase. The grate wall works really well in that most of your splits are laid over and stacked vertically (kinda like a hopper feeder) and it keeps the uppermost ones out of the reach of the fire until the lower ones burn up and crumble. We looked at inserts and free standing stoves before we purchased the grate and realized we didn't have the funds to pull it off for the time being. I'm sure we'll do something with a proper stove further down the line if all the planets align themselves. For the time being though, I'm actually surprised with how efficient that grate turned out to be. We've been burning 24 hours a day for about the last month and a half, and mostly at night for the times when the weather was turning cooler before that. During the course of the full-time burn, I've averaged about a wheelbarrow full a day. The wheelbarrow is one of those plastic bodied jobs that has a depth of about a foot with roughly the same length and width as a normal wheelbarrow. Once I stack the logs that I brought up from the pile onto the deck, it's usually about 5 feet long and two rows high (sometimes three depending on the size of the log and the crossbeam on the deck). This will last me roughly till the same time next morning. This got me to thinking what everyone else on here uses per day. How about it?

 

[Dalmatian90]

Sounds like, maybe a bit more, then I run through on my Boxwood stove...which flies under the EPA regulations by being so inefficient it's classified as a fireplace. Deep winter I'll be chewing through a 1/4 cord per week.

 

[cafo1.618]

How many pieces do you burn in a full day?

 

[pyankura]

One wheel barrel full is not too bad really! I use about 1 arm full 3 times a day and heat, quit well, about 1600 sqft.

You don't always have to buy brand new.. Craigslist has some really awesome deals that can be had cheap. Epa stoves are pretty darn good.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

How many pieces do you burn in a full day?

Actual pieces? That's tough to calculate mainly because I throw weird knotty stuff in, short splits, and whatever else might be at the top of the pile I'm working down through. Sometimes I'll hit a lot of irregular wood. I just keep of throwing it in the wheelbarrow filling whatever gaps I can until I have enough to cart up.

 

[zogger]

Never heard of those so had to google it up. Pretty interesting design.

I burn as much as you most likely, a wheelbarrow full a day, little more mid season, lot less beginning and end of season, and way more primo wood in mid season, and very little primo wood at the ends or shoulders..

Really varies a lot though, and proly could get by with one quarter what I burn now with an airtight stove and better insulated cabin.

Ive heated with fireplaces three times now, and my folks had one, so thats four..When you can afford it, go to an insert or free standing heater. There is just no way to get the same burn from an open fireplace. Some are better than others, and your grate looks cool, and I guess gives a decent improvement, but...facts is facts. An enclosed controlled burn is just more efficient and will give you more usable heat with less fuel.

If I was buying my wood or had to travel and jump through hoops to get the wood, Id be double timing it on figuring out an alternative to the open jobbers.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

One wheel barrel full is not too bad really! I use about 1 arm full 3 times a day and heat, quit well, about 1600 sqft.

You don't always have to buy brand new.. Craigslist has some really awesome deals that can be had cheap. Epa stoves are pretty darn good.

We did see some stoves on craigslist that weren't too bad price wise. But when we started calculating in the cost of the triple wall chimney liner and the installation, those plans got shot down.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

Never heard of those so had to google it up. Pretty interesting design.

I burn as much as you most likely, a wheelbarrow full a day, little more mid season, lot less beginning and end of season, and way more primo wood in mid season, and very little primo wood at the ends or shoulders..

Really varies a lot though, and proly could get by with one quarter what I burn now with an airtight stove and better insulated cabin.

Ive heated with fireplaces three times now, and my folks had one, so thats four..When you can afford it, go to an insert or free standing heater. There is just no way to get the same burn from an open fireplace. Some are better than others, and your grate looks cool, and I guess gives a decent improvement, but...facts is facts. An enclosed controlled burn is just more efficient and will give you more usable heat with less fuel.

If I was buying my wood or had to travel and jump through hoops to get the wood, Id be double timing it on figuring out an alternative to the open jobbers.

Thanks man. Even when we bought that thing I knew it was just going to be a temporary fix until I could get a proper setup. What's been saving me is all the wood I've been getting is local, and all of it free.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

Zogger, on a side note, when my friend down the road pays a visit he always makes sure that he mentions what I have in my little wood rack off to the side would last him a good twelve hours

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

a fireplace is the worse possible place to burn wood to keep your house warm. most of your heat is going outside. If you have an endless supply of wood it is not a big deal...most of us don't. I built an airtight stove that would heat a 1500 square foot ranch house at minus 20 degrees at about a face cord per week. It only had a 6 inch flue pipe.:msp_mellow:

Built it from scratch yourself? What kind of plans did you use and how much did it cost? Also was that 6 inch flue single wall?

 

[Steve NW WI]

You're right in line with what I'm burning in my big old non-EPA indoor furnace, it's a big part of the reason that furnace will be retired in the next month or so, when my supply of wood that's too long for a newer stove is gone.

I've been keeping real close track this year, just to try and document the savings when I go to a new stove. I've burned 2.55 cords since I started burning toward the end of September, 1.13 cords of pine, .65 of elm, most of that pretty well on the way to punky, .46 cords and counting of mostly oak mix, and the remainder a smattering of miscellaneous junk. I have burned as needed to keep the house at an average of 70°, usually cooler when I get home from work, and warmer in the first few hours after the stove is stoked up.

One advantage that I have over you is the ability to fill the 7 cu ft firebox and leave for 12 hours and come back to coals enough to relight the fire.

Best of luck keeping the gas man at bay, try to set aside a little cash each payday for a heater upgrade in the future.

 

[zogger]

Thanks man. Even when we bought that thing I knew it was just going to be a temporary fix until I could get a proper setup. What's been saving me is all the wood I've been getting is local, and all of it free.

Well, not sure on regs in your area or how yours is built, but...here goes, Ill get jumped on this no doubt....

Our cabin used to have two back to back open fireplaces and a plain brick chimney. It still has a plain brick chimney. The fireplaces are bricked up, and now it has back to back six inch holes where the stove pipe just shoves in up above like where the mantle used to be, say, dunno, over my head, call it six and a half feet up.. One side doesnt have a heater, thats the kitchen area now and my GFs antique glassware cabinet sits there instead of a cookstove... the other side in this room, what passes for a living room, has a 25 buck used wood heater, plain single wall black pipe, up from the stove, a lazy 90 elbow, real slight upward angle to it, and shoved into the hole. And thats it for the installation, no expensive liner or nuthin. Chimney working the same as before with the legal fireplace, now just has a stove instead. Seems to work fine, and the insurance guy stared right at it and didn't say a thing.

So...what I am saying is..I dont understand why you need all that new pipe, when the fireplace chimney you have now is legal and working? It passes muster with the insurance guys and local regs?

I just cant see a better stove plugged into a chimney like that burning dirtier than an open fireplace, unless I am missing something. maybe because it burns hotter??

I really dont know the answer to that, just seems like you should be able to tap into it in a similar fashion like we have here and run it, and block the bottom off. Might have to build the hearth out more with stone/tile/whatever, some place to set the heater on, thats it, then a cheap used heater.

Now I'll let the guys educate me on why this is wrong, bound to be several reasons.

 

[CTYank]

Not bragging, but my little Morso can go for the better part of a WEEK on a wheelbarrow full of little 8" splits. I use the crappiest wood in the inventory that'll do the job. Fireplaces are MASSIVE ventilators, not good in winter.

Trust me, you'll be thrilled when you see the effect of a proper EPA-compliant stove/insert. You don't have to include a SS chimney liner. There are many ways a good sheet-metal man can fabricate an adapter to hook up a stove to a fireplace, and there are many stoves that have (optional) discharge to the rear. Couple of us made up such a thing for an elderly neighbor-lady back in the '80s and she loved how it freed her from the oil-man, with the little Supra stove we installed.

Meanwhile, wood you don't burn will improve in quality, and expand your inventory.

Longer indoor smokepipe means added heat to the house- reason to expose some there.

With all the wood here from hurricanes, etc., I'd still have to work to burn more than 2 cords for the season, not to mention the recent wussy winters.

Best Wishes

PS Some stoves now have IR shielding (mine does), a couple of layers of sheet steel below (and behind) the stove so the distance to combustibles can be greatly reduced. So you could put it right over a wood floor, but might want to put a simple ember-catcher beneath. Setting the stove out in the room a bit would enable more effective heating.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

Well, not sure on regs in your area or how yours is built, but...here goes, Ill get jumped on this no doubt....

Our cabin used to have two back to back open fireplaces and a plain brick chimney. It still has a plain brick chimney. The fireplaces are bricked up, and now it has back to back six inch holes where the stove pipe just shoves in up above like where the mantle used to be, say, dunno, over my head, call it six and a half feet up.. One side doesnt have a heater, thats the kitchen area now and my GFs antique glassware cabinet sits there instead of a cookstove... the other side in this room, what passes for a living room, has a 25 buck used wood heater, plain single wall black pipe, up from the stove, a lazy 90 elbow, real slight upward angle to it, and shoved into the hole. And thats it for the installation, no expensive liner or nuthin. Chimney working the same as before with the legal fireplace, now just has a stove instead. Seems to work fine, and the insurance guy stared right at it and didn't say a thing.

So...what I am saying is..I dont understand why you need all that new pipe, when the fireplace chimney you have now is legal and working? It passes muster with the insurance guys and local regs?

I just cant see a better stove plugged into a chimney like that burning dirtier than an open fireplace, unless I am missing something. maybe because it burns hotter??

I really dont know the answer to that, just seems like you should be able to tap into it in a similar fashion like we have here and run it, and block the bottom off. Might have to build the hearth out more with stone/tile/whatever, some place to set the heater on, thats it, then a cheap used heater.

Now I'll let the guys educate me on why this is wrong, bound to be several reasons.

Trust me, I also thought about doing something like what you did with a smaller more efficient stove on the hearth with the flue tapped into the existing chimney, but I guess the thought of homeowners insurance not approving it scared me. I guess Ill have to call soon and see where their boundries lie on what work can be done.....

 

[mbbushman]

Sounds like you burn about 2-3 times as much wood as I do in my stove. 2 and a half wheelbarrows fills my rack in the garage, and that will heat my place for 7-10 days, depending on outside temp.

 

[Bushmans]

I hate my fireplace because I am such a slave to it. I am usually up around 5 on the weekends and immedialtley light a fire. I burn about 6 pieces every hour all day long until bed time. Wake up in the morning to a cold fireplace, maybe a few coals but nothing to start a new fire. Most of the heat goes right up the chimney.
I have heat tubes in my fireplace and a fan that blows air through them and into the room.
I have tried every way to get the most heat out of it.

Close the screens, leave glass doors open
Screens open, glass door open
Doors closed, air intake louvers shut
Doors closed, air intake louvers open

It seems as if I leave the doors closed I use more wood.

Right now I leave the doors and screens open with the fan blowing. I seem to get more radiant heat off the flames that way. Closing the screens blocks a ton of heat. Of course I constantly have to be on the look out for "snaps and pops" flying out.

I've been toying around with the air intake louvers a bit. I'm not sure where they draw the air from. If they could draw outside air then I would probably leave the doors closed with the louvers open.

The louvers are controlled by a small slide. They reside right behind the glass doors.

I have been on the hunt for a stove insert for awhile but there is always soomething else gobbling up the cash. I already have a triple wall chimney. I think I would just have to reduce from 8" down to 6"

I am open to any suggestions on making my fieplace more "efficient".

 

[mga]

i heat with a fireplace.

it took me a few years to get it right because a fireplace, as it stands, is not very efficient.

mine, however, is the "heatilator type...meaning it has a thick metal box inside. the bricks on the sides have vents to allow convection.

i also have some thing similar to this thing:

which works wonders for pushing heat. i love the damn thing. i expanded on that too and designed my own air flow for it.

also, i switched glass doors to the cabinet style. then, i made sure the frame was sealed all around to make it air tight. i then sealed the doors with that rope seal stuff to further make them air tight.

when i burn, i keep my glass doors shut and to heat a 2000sq ft house i burn maybe almost face cord per week. i'm sure an insert is more efficient, but i'm happy with how this set up works. if i throw some larger pieces in at night, they'll be there in the morning as red hot coals.

 

[Bushmans]

I think the worst part is all that flame requires a huge voume of air and the fireplace is using the air in the room that you just heated to burn more and it sends it right up the chimney. It's like 3 steps forward and two back just trying to get the house up to temp.

I have qa fire roaring away right now. It is throwing out a ton of heat but within a few minutes I'll be adding more wood.
On the bright side I always have a clean chimney.

I will get an insert so some day when I leave for work at 5:15 am I can add some wood to the stove, shut it down and it will keep working for hours after that and when I get home at 4:30 pm I will have something to work with and the house won't be cold.

 

[dmlefevre]

Wheelbarrow load of wood lasts at least 3 days in high winter with the stove running 24/7. I also have two fireplaces for show. If I get all three going, like at the holidays, the routine is... load the stove, the dining room fireplace, the porch fireplace, run to the woodshed, refill the wheelbarrow, load the fireplaces, run to the woodshed, refill the wheelbarrow, load the fireplaces, you get the point.... You will love a stove when the chance comes...

 

[pyankura]

To put an insert into a fireplace you don't need triple wall. Flex liner with insulation wrap is quite a bit cheaper! Installation...... if you can't do it then it will cost some money. It is a simple job in most cases though. You can also get lucky with the liner on Craigslist too.

For instance I found for a friend a Buckstoves model 80 or 85 the one without the cat for 750 and the liner, I missed by minutes, was 25 feet for 150 bux with insulation. Guy had it in there for sometime but of course when I wanted it... You know how that goes! The stove was like new thought.