Dolmar and Market Share

[buckwheat]

another post made me think: If Makita/Dolmar continues to re-establish itself in the US chainsaw market, whether pro logger, arborist, home owners and such; will any brand in particular suffer more? In addition to saw specs and quality, what about marketing and distribution trends? Who stands to lose the most if Dolmar continues to garner attention?

 

[eyolf]

I would think it hard to tell, nationwide. In my area I think Stihl will give up the most; that's probably because Stihl is buttoned up by a family-owned chain of John Deere stores...they aren't particularly concerned with what to them is a small piece of their pie.

In other areas I'd suggest Husky would be pressed hard...they are hurting some dealers with box and internet sales, as well as requiring a lot of formerly limited-range dealers to carry the full line.

Some of this depends, I think, on how good Dolmar sells in the yard accessory range, too...trimmers, blowers, etc.

 

[buckwheat]

I'd be curious to know if the box store sales have helped Husky and Echo with market share; or if the prospect of poor service has pushed consumers more towards the specialized shops.

 

[a_lopa]

husqvarna did alot of development down here in the 80s and were always getting better, i think theyve stalled in some areas and have little good tech support.IMO they will be the ones it will hurt most,farmers etc mainly buy stihls and with good reason.i was at the biggest farm/machinery field days in oz the stihl tent was doing a very good trade,the others wernt selling much at all.it would take a while to reduce the stihl brand name cause at the end of the day its a top product

 

[max2cam]

Modern saws are so realiable and cheap that they are not a huge investment. And price is aways a BIG deal. So box store sales are a good thing for the consumer. If the Dolmer brand can give the marketing appeal of "German quality" on par with Stihl but at a lower price people will probably buy them. Esp. if they are the right color. Same is true with Solo.

http://www.atthecreation.com/

 

[lucky]

Yeah box stores are a good deal for the consumer..... until his saw breaks and the kid at home dumpo just shrugs and the local saw repair shop had to close because the dumpo undercut his prices. How does jon doe get his saw fixed? It seems to me that big box stores are associated with cheaper brands. Examples would be craftsman, homelite, poulan etc. Is this were Elux wants to go with husky?
I think competition from Dolmar and Solo would be a good thing. It would force Stihl and Husky to become more competitive. Who knows maybe Stihl would do away with limiter caps.

 

[Grande Dog]

US manufacturers tried to ride their name instead of their products into the future. The only thing they've accomplished is to ride both into the ground. One thing the European and Japanese manufacturers were willing to do was sell with lower profit margins to get their foot in the door. Now there where they wanted to be. I'm positive that a US company could make just as good of a product, but nobody is going to be willing to pay twice as much for it. At one point in time we laughed hard at imports, but they certainly have laughed last. I hope this doesn't read like a bunch of sour grapes. It's just one dogs howling at the moon.

Grande Dog
Master Mechanic
Discount Arborist Equipment and Tree Care Supplies

 

[glens]

Originally posted by lucky
It would force Stihl and Husky to become more competitive. Who knows maybe Stihl would do away with limiter caps.

Stihl (or anyone) doing away with limiter caps would make them competitive, all right.  Competitive with (against) the EPA.  I'm curious whether you think any other current manufacturer doesn't have them (on jets that are adjustable) on current models.

My 036 Pro is U.S. made...

Glen

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I sure hope Dolmar continues to grow. This might get some of the other saw manufacturers off their duffs and update the product line. I really like the new Dolmar saws. I am looking forward to the new 50cc model.

 

[eyolf]

Interesting POV here. Esp the Large Canine's.

I believe that it is way, way too late to rescue Homelite and McC, of course, but The USA can and will be competitive in a lot of major areas. Life will be a lot less comfortable and satisfying in the assembly plants, though! A lot of us in the USA had a good ride for a while, but it's all evaporating before our eyes.

There are dealers gingerly showing their faces again in spite of the box stores. Some of these shops are realizing that they can make some money because of the box store...Home despot or Wally world sells a few products, but not a full line...and save maybe a spare plug or pint of suspect-brand oil, not parts and accesories. Some smart shops are capitalizing on this trend.

I was by a little Snapper dealer the other day with three used snapper rear-engine riders...I'm almost certain they were the same model Walmart was blowing out last year. Wanna bet that those low-end riders became an opportunity for the lawnmower shop?

I think there may be an interesting corollary in chain saws....by far the biggest segment of the market is thel little consumer saws, the ones that aren't worth a schmidt unless the chain and bar are in very good shape. Not many homeowners will trade their wild thing in on a little Stihl or Husky, but they'll be at the chainsaw shop almost every time they need to cut something because a lot of them don't understand that chainsaws aren't made for dirt, and even fewer can adequately file a chain.

And when that little wild thing fails after 12 hrs of cutting in 4 years, they'll be back to who for help? Big-box?

 

[Van]

eyolf, I agree with what you said about the box stores and the small engine shop being able to benefit from them in some instances , but alot of those 4 year 12 hour watchfob saws are disposable like the rest of our world has become and the home owner type just chucks it and buys another. Look at the $89.99 lawnmowers, why pay $40-50 a hour shop labor to fix it, they just get another. Hell if he would have doubled his investment in the first place he could have gotten one that would last. Nothing at Wally world for me except toilet paper and chicken, lol
Van

 

[lucky]

Stihl (or anyone) doing away with limiter caps would make them competitive, all right. Competitive with (against) the EPA. I'm curious whether you think any other current manufacturer doesn't have them (on jets that are adjustable) on current models.

The fact that you will quibble with anyone over any subject no matter how small, really does disturb me. Bored, are we?

Glen, my man I really don't know or care what other manufacturers are currently doing in regards to limiters. My main point was that other players mean competition and competition is good. Since you're so much more intelligent and better informed than the rest of us, why don't you give us all a lesson about who and who doesn't use limiters, and the emision mandates given by the EPA? How about an economics lecture while you're at it?

 

[a_lopa]

shindiawa

 

[Grande Dog]

Maybe I can shed a little light on the limiter cap situation. Being located in California we've been dealing with the EPA regulations longer than the rest of the world. Most folks think the manufactuters put them on to keep people from leaning out their saws. This thought comes from the fact that as a new saws rings seat (approx 30 hours of use) it begins to run richer because they're packing for fuel in the cylinder. The richer the saw runs the more unburnt hydro-carbons leave the muffler. This happens because the rich condition makes the muffler cooler. The whole idea is to have the saw run as lean as possible so it burns as much of the hydro-carbons as it can. At this point in time it's illegal (with a healthy fine) for a shop to remvove the limiters and leave them off. The shops responsibility is to remvove the limiters make the proper adjustments and replace the limiters. As far as I know there isn't anything to prevent the end user from removing them. Even if the end user removes the limiters and takes it to a shop for repair, it's the shops responsibility to replace them whether the customer wants them or not.

Grande Dog
Master Mechanic
Discount Arborist Equipment and Tree Care Supplies

 

[geofore]

what's up?

I ordered another Dolmar PP7900 from DozerDan cause I liked the first one so much. Danny has me paying for part of his vacation. So Husky lost on selling me 2 of the 372's or 385's but I bought a Husky PP346XPG from Danny till Dolmar gets off their duff and out of rescearch and ships a few of the new 50cc models to the states for a little moddification by Dan. I don't know if my wife will let me buy more saws, the shop is full of saws now.

 

[glens]

Originally posted by lucky
The fact that you will quibble with anyone over any subject no matter how small, really does disturb me. Bored, are we?

Glen, my man I really don't know or care what other manufacturers are currently doing in regards to limiters. My main point was that other players mean competition and competition is good.

Hey, lucky, you were the one that brought up the doing-away-with of limiter caps.  My discussing that point afterwards amounts to quibbling?  Excuse me.  I initially read that as a slam against Stihl as if they were the only ones using them.  I guess now I can see it as maybe an expressed wish that they would cease; sorry.  But it really doesn't change anything.

The only ways limiter caps will ever be done-away-with is if there are no adjustable jets (Stihl [among others] has already tried that and they get real bad-mouthed around here for it), the limiters become internal (i.e. behind welsh plugs?), or if injectors are used.  Maybe if the injectors are mechanical (doubtful) they'd be tweakable by altering the driving cams.  If they're electronically controlled (look for it) then not only will a person be liable for fines/sanctions by the EPA if they mess with them, but under our Digital Millennium Copyright Act it's against Federal law to even attempt to circumvent "protected" computerized controls (as they undoubtedly will be), so jail time would be a possibility as well.

Hope that ain't quibbling.

Glen

 

[stihltech]

limiters

I think the electronics will come just as they did on the cars. They are much more reliable now, the price has come way down, and they do not go out of adjustment.

This is the same argument we vehicle techs heard in the 70's into the 80's. Rhe only reason the electronics came about was to holf the emmissions closer to spec by keeping the air/fuel ratio under control.

My hope is that what we have seen come about in vehicles will happen sooner in the OPE market. Power, drivability and reliability made a return. Lets hope those lessons do not take so long to get here.

 

[sedanman]

In 1970 Fords most fuel efficient car was the Pinto, in 1990 their least efficient car was the Lincoln Town Car.................it got better fuel economy than the 1970 Pinto. ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION!

 

[Saw Man]

Europe was dealing with emissions long before California.

While that was going on CARB was invented, and "laid" Tier i & Tier II regs.

EPA followed in CARB's footsteps, then stepped out with Phase I & Phase II regs.

Europe's 2008 regs will become the world's (civilized) most stringent standards. But only after the good 'ole USA did all the work, and enforcement.

CARB commonly referred to in the Firearms industry as
'Wackafornia', has again reared it's ugly head with new regs that will cost the OPE Industry one billion dollars ($1,000,000,000).

It claims that the vaporization, and permeation (leaking thru fuel lines, gaskets, and containers) was-is worse that emitted combustion (muffler exhaust).

Go figure that one out. If it's worse....why did they fight about other things earlier, and keep the good stuff to last....??????


Regarding Limiter Caps & 'break in', a new engine will pollute more prior to breakin, not the reverse. More THC's are emitted.
As the engine breaks in, it becomes more efficient.

The limiter caps are mainly designed to function as Stihl Tech commented about electronics, which is to keep the engine operating within better emissions, and operating ranges, not solely for anti-leaning.

Engines that are on the lean edge can produce speed, but the component service life is greatly reduced, and when that happens engines run much less efficiently.......quicker death.

 

[glens]

Originally posted by Saw Man
It claims that the vaporization, and permeation (leaking thru fuel lines, gaskets, and containers) was-is worse that emitted combustion (muffler exhaust).

Go figure that one out. If it's worse....why did they fight about other things earlier, and keep the good stuff to last....??????

Or asked another way, why don't they give us the other stuff back in trade?

Regarding Limiter Caps & 'break in', a new engine will pollute more prior to breakin, not the reverse. More THC's are emitted.

You mean if I think I might be having to take a whiz quiz in the near future I shouldn't be running new saws?  Bummer!  Or maybe I could just toke up and when I fail the test tell them "Hey, I've been using a brand new chainsaw".  haha

Engines that are on the lean edge can produce speed, but the component service life is greatly reduced, and when that happens engines run much less efficiently.......quicker death.

So you take your saw in for it's after break-in check-up and the guy pulls the caps, sets the jets with a tach, and puts caps on.  You take the saw and notice it's just screaming, stick your screwdriver in the hole and find the jet is already at its richest setting.  Reminds me of the brand new power plant I was working at years ago.  They were up and running though not yet officially "on line", so they were able to put unregulated power down the lines.  The turbine throttle valves would typically be pegged at 105% indicated (so no wiggle room) with the Swiss techs running around yelling "You can't do that; NO WARRANTY".  A quick calculation says 450 megawatts is 600,000 horsepower; does that sound right?