Dolmar oil recommendation

[MikeK]

I picked up a 5100 last week and have a couple questions about the oil mix. I've never owned a Dolmar before so I'm very intrigued by the manual's recommendation of 100:1 when using their "HP 100" oil. I've never run my other saws at anything learner than 50:1, but then again, this is the highest revving saw I've personally owned so maybe its a different type of animal altogether. Is 100:1 actually a "safe" ratio (given the HP 100 oil) for this particular saw? And, has anyone had any experience running Amsoil (or Klotz) in this saw? FWIW, I bought it mainly for bucking/limbing (namely below the 12" diameter range.) I've put 3 tanks of ~40:1 through it to get things settled in (nothing scientific here, just old habit) and plan on running it at the ratio for at least 3-to-5 more tanks before I readjust the mix and carb settings. (14,300 max wot)

I'm leaning (NPI) towards running it on Amsoil at 80:1 (and possibly even 100:1 if that's realistic with the right type of oil) to see how it handles, but would sure like some input.

thanks...mike

 

[WoodChuck'r]

I'll never run a saw at 100:1.

The leanest I'll go is 50:1 - but I always prefer 40:1. All the time though, I use 32:1.

If I have to guess I'd say you'll be starting another "burned up 5100" in a couple of weeks if you run that thing at 100:1.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Welcome to AS by the way.

 

[biggenius29]

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:



GARY!!!!!

 

[MikeK]

That would be my general viewpoint as well, but I'm having a hard time understanding why they'd spec out their HP100 at 100:1. It seems to me that stuff must be some fantastic goo, or else they'd be up to their ears in warranty claims. Am I missing something here?

Their manual does show two other "recommended" mixes: 50:1 when using their regular Dolmar oil, and 40:1 when using other flavors. That's more inline with what I'd expect. Amsoil is the only other brand that I've ever seen spec out at 100:1...and they even warranty it. (setting aside the issues/discussion of warranties...)

 

[MikeK]

Welcome to AS by the way.

Thanks! Ma always said, "If you're going to look dumb at least hang out with smart people..." so, here I am...

 

[J.W Younger]

thats funny, my 5100 said syn dolmar at 50-1 and other synthetics with the same specs acceptable at 50-1. no options, not that I would run other mix ratios.I allways add a cap full per gallon just because it makes me feel better in case I miss, better a tad more than too little oil.
IMO

 

[pjwoolw]

Pretty sure the manual that came with the 7900 said 50 to one with Dolmar oil. 40 to 1 with anything else.

 

[MikeK]

thats funny, my 5100 said syn dolmar at 50-1 and other synthetics with the same specs acceptable at 50-1. no options, not that I would run other mix ratios.I allways add a cap full per gallon just because it makes me feel better in case I miss, better a tad more than too little oil.
IMO

It sounds like your manual doesn't even mention the HP100 product at all, is that correct? Have you heard of anyone ever using this oil, or is it something that's relatively new on the market?

They do give a couple of performance grade/standards in lieu of using their house blends (a couple of European-based standards, iirc), but I couldn't tell from the wording whether those were acceptable at 100:1, or only to used at 50:1 or even 40:1.

 

[tdi-rick]

It sounds like your manual doesn't even mention the HP100 product at all, is that correct?
[snip]

AFAIK it's only available in Europe.
I don't know who blends their oils in Europe, but a company called Spectrum Corp blends Dolmar/Makita, Echo/Shindaiwa, Husky and Poulan mineral, semi-syn and synthetic oils for North America.

 

[MCW]

I run all my saws at 50:1 except for my 3120 that gets 30:1.
How all of a sudden oil can go from a recommended 50:1 to a 100:1 without any steps in between is beyond me. Big jumps in the performance of any product, such as oil in this case, makes me a tad sceptical

 

[J.W Younger]

It sounds like your manual doesn't even mention the HP100 product at all, is that correct? Have you heard of anyone ever using this oil, or is it something that's relatively new on the market?

They do give a couple of performance grade/standards in lieu of using their house blends (a couple of European-based standards, iirc), but I couldn't tell from the wording whether those were acceptable at 100:1, or only to used at 50:1 or even 40:1.

Thats correct, no mention of 100-1 hp and no printing date on the manual but the saw was purchased last July.
Welcome to AS, by the way.

 

[MikeK]

For anyone else who finds themselves searching for this answer, tdi-rick was on the right track. I received an email from Dolmar's National Technical Manager this morning:

---
The oil mentioned in the manual HP-100 is a special 100:1 blend that is only available in Germany and not sold here in the USA. We do not recommend the use of any lean ratio oil, we recommend the Dolmar fully synthetic 50:1 two stroke mix part numbers:
986100100 - 1 gal mix
986100101 - 2.5 gal mix
986100105 - 5 gal mix

If any other oil is used we recommend oil rated JASO - FD or ISO - EGD at 50:1.
---

So for those of you running 5100's, are you using Dolmar's syn line? Has anyone here tried the Klotz syn/castor hybrid?


(And thanks for the warm welcome, J.W., I'm glad to be here learning from you folks.)

 

[WoodChuck'r]

For anyone else who finds themselves searching for this answer, tdi-rick was on the right track. I received an email from Dolmar's National Technical Manager this morning:

---
The oil mentioned in the manual HP-100 is a special 100:1 blend that is only available in Germany and not sold here in the USA. We do not recommend the use of any lean ratio oil, we recommend the Dolmar fully synthetic 50:1 two stroke mix part numbers:
986100100 - 1 gal mix
986100101 - 2.5 gal mix
986100105 - 5 gal mix

If any other oil is used we recommend oil rated JASO - FD or ISO - EGD at 50:1.
---

So for those of you running 5100's, are you using Dolmar's syn line? Has anyone here tried the Klotz syn/castor hybrid?


(And thanks for the warm welcome, J.W., I'm glad to be here learning from you folks.)

The Klotz oil you are talking about is Klotz R50 (R50 means 50% Racing). It's half racing synthetic 2-stroke oil and the other half is castor oil - the racing 2-stroke oil is Klotz and the castor oil is Klotz Beanol.

The stuff is terrific, and man oh man does it ever smell good.

I run my mix with non ethanol 93 octane @ 32:1. It's heavy (and expensive!), but half my saws are modded and two of them pull some high RPMs, so it's worth it in my book. I use the same gas for all my saws, I don't want to have multiple gas cans with different mixes in each one of them.

Klotz R50 is pretty pricey - about $12 for a 16oz bottle.

Like I said I can justify it, it's cheaper than having to send your saw back out to the builder with a brand new P&C to mod again.

 

[MikeK]

That's what I was looking for, thanks. It sounds like Klotz is up to the task of higher rpm'd saws. (I feel a little outdated...I still use a modified 038, but the blessed thing runs fine on anything this side of pond water.)

I thought Klotz had a product that was something like a 80/20 (syn/castor) mix, but I can't seem to locate it anymore. Is it still available, or am I thinking of something else?

To follow-up on my original intent of getting information on the HP100, I received another email from Dolmar that in summary basically says that (aside from import costs) they don't offer the HP100 oil in the US/Canada because of our higher percentage of ethanol: "In Germany the maximum ethanol content in fuel was 2% and was just increased to 5.75% last year, this lower ethanol content allows for cooler operation of the engines." That explains it enough for me...I'm going to stick with the richer ratio.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

That's what I was looking for, thanks. It sounds like Klotz is up to the task of higher rpm'd saws. (I feel a little outdated...I still use a modified 038, but the blessed thing runs fine on anything this side of pond water.)

I thought Klotz had a product that was something like a 80/20 (syn/castor) mix, but I can't seem to locate it anymore. Is it still available, or am I thinking of something else?

To follow-up on my original intent of getting information on the HP100, I received another email from Dolmar that in summary basically says that (aside from import costs) they don't offer the HP100 oil in the US/Canada because of our higher percentage of ethanol: "In Germany the maximum ethanol content in fuel was 2% and was just increased to 5.75% last year, this lower ethanol content allows for cooler operation of the engines." That explains it enough for me...I'm going to stick with the richer ratio.

That would be Super Techniplate, and yes it is 80% racing 2-stroke, and 20% Beanol.

The R50 is Techniplate R. According to quite a few guys at a bike shop, and a Klotz Rep (whom I did speak with at the bike shop), R50 is "the best stuff they sell".

They said you get the clean burning + great performance of the racing oil, and the protection of the castor oil. They said that 100% castor oil (Beanol) is only for methanol only - and it does not protect engines running regular gas the way R50 would. They said it drives them nuts when some "tough guy" comes in and asks "I'm looking for BEANOL! Cause it's the best stuff EVER!" - this is when they find out that the guy is running 93 octane gas. They then have to argue with this big headed guy's ego and tell him that R50 is better and what he has been doing is wrong. You could imagine how those conversations go....

I asked about the differences between Super Techniplate and Techniplate R - they said that Klotz sells the Super to give the customer a choice - but the 20% castor is not going to make that big of a difference when mixed with the racking 2-stroke oil.

The rep said that R50 is the most recommended oil (and the most expensive sh##) for a reason. All the guys at this bike shop agreed and swear by R50 along with the Klotz rep.

Could it have been a sales pitch to ensure that I continue to buy their most expensive badass stuff? Possibly. But I haven't had a problem yet and I run my saws hard. Sometimes peace of mind is a little slice of the pie as well.

 

[MikeK]

Have you ever heard of anyone having fuel filter issues with the Klotz mixes? A friend of mine started running one of those castor blends in his 372. After a couple tanks the thing would die down after idle...the service guy told him it was the oil mix. Showed him the fuel filter -- it was coated with a red-dyed "sludge." He stayed with Klotz but changed flavors. That went well...until the 372's piston went out, but I don't think it was due to the oil (something about it being a known issue with the 372's crank bearings?)

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Have you ever heard of anyone having fuel filter issues with the Klotz mixes? A friend of mine started running one of those castor blends in his 372. After a couple tanks the thing would die down after idle...the service guy told him it was the oil mix. Showed him the fuel filter -- it was coated with a red-dyed "sludge." He stayed with Klotz but changed flavors. That went well...until the 372's piston went out, but I don't think it was due to the oil (something about it being a known issue with the 372's crank bearings?)

I don't know much about the 372's crank bearings......

But the red dye gunking up the filter - I'm guessing that would be straight Beanol mixed heavy with 87 octane gas.

That's what I mean by Beanol not being the best for regular gas. It has a tough time staying in suspension in regular gas like that. That or his fuel filter was already goo'ed up and the filter just looked red from the Beanol.

R50 uses some additives so that the 2-stroke and Beanol mix well and stay in suspension without a problem.

 

[Timberton]

Two Stroke Oils

I really love these "two stroke oil" threads!! Perhaps because I grew up in the historic oil region of NW Pennsylvania, I like to talk about oil..

Anyways, I've run AMS-Oil Sabre 100:1 and never had a problem running it in small aircooled two stroke engines. I even ran it in a 2 stroke Lawn Boy and an old Homelite chainsaw, both of which are supposed to run 32:1 mix. But even so, I stopped using it. Perhaps silly, but I never felt "comfortable" running 100:1.

For what it's worth, here's what I run in all of my various 2 stroke machines now. Basically, "Outboard" labeled oil for my water cooled outboards. "Snowmobile" labled oil for my cold weather operating snowmobiles and snowblower. "Stihl" synthetic oil for all of my small aircooled motors in chainsaws, leaf blowers, weed wackers, etc.

1990 Oil Injection Mercury Outboard: Synthetic Mercury outboard oil.

1968 Pre-Mix Johnson Outboard: Synthetic Mercury outboard oil. 50:1.

Various brands and various years of pre-mix snowmobiles: Klotz Techniplate snowmobile oil. 50:1.

Toro 2 stroke snowthrower: Klotz Techniplate snowmobile oil. 50:1.

All chainsaws: Stihl synthetic oil. 40:1.

Weed wackers & leaf blowers: Stihl synthetic oil. 40:1.

Lawnboy mowers: Stihl synthetic oil. 40:1.

Toro mower, Suzuki 2 stroke: Stihl synthetic oil. 40:1.

I've only ever had one 2 stroke engine issue... my niece was riding a 1980 fan cooled snowmobile when the fan belt broke. She didn't realize it and kept on going until the engine overheated and stopped. I was running Klotz Techniplate snowmobile oil and although the rings needed to be replaced, the pistons and cylinders were fine. Thank you Klotz!

"I love the smell of two stroke in the morning!"

 

[MikeK]

Well, I took all of my new-found knowledge and went into town (30 mile drive) to pick up some oil. I figured I'd at least find something at the shops around town that cater to the moto/track racers. No luck. The best I could come up with was an AC-specific Lucas synthetic. It meets the benchmark requirements that the Dolmar guru sent me, so I should be fine.

The shop that I bought the saw from said they carry Amsoil but they still only recommend running it at 50:1. I think I'd like the Amsoil oil, I'm just not that crazy about their marketing approach. I think I'll try the R50 as soon as I can get some shipped in. (Any recommended vendors?) It's ironic, I really enjoyed teasing my buddy that he smells like Downy because of his fuel mix...guess I'm going to have to join him.

Thanks for all of the insight....I'm ready to go cut....

BTW -- do you guys use those ethanol testers or do you just buy your gas from a source where you know the e. percentages?