downhill log retreival

[da new feller]

i need to haul 50+ alders weighing between 750-1000lbs. each approx. 100' up to 200' up a ravine. i would say the slope is a 60 degree average. i've got a '94 ext. cab 3/4 ton silverado 4x4 w/ a warn 8274 8000lb. winch. my biggest problem that i keep running into is the butt end digging into the hillside. i did however put a pulley in a large fir at the top of the hill but have nothing down the hill but alders. i had carved in a large fir stump a "V" and placed a section of fir about 8" dia. X 10' and chained around the stump and hooked a cable from the top down to it with a pulley hooked to my winch. that section of fir i chained into the back side of the stump broke while winching a log. i don't have the log completely off the ground, just the front end to keep it from digging in to the hillside. this alder is just firewood but i would hate to spend the time downsizing these logs and hauling them up in pieces, but at this time that's the only way i've been able to figure it. have i just answeared my own question or am i overlooking the obvious?


thanks for reading my delema, Jon

 

[slowp]

This is hard cuz I can't see what you have. But, if that stump is still there, how sound is it? Instead of cutting a v in it, you would need to notch it and wrap a line around it for the end of your lines and put a block on it. You can put "twisters" on it to add strength. That is using small line known as haywire doubled up and twisted with a stout limb/stick in the middle to tighten it. You can add twisters to twisters and this adds more strength and distributes the load out more. BUT, undoing the twisters after you are done is dangerous. One guy cuts through his stumps enough so the stumps slack the line a bit. Hard to explain. How high is your block (pulley) at the top? What shape is your hill?
I've seen guys working their pickup with blocks to get firewood out. You might continue to try different configurations. Just be careful and remember that LIFT is a good thing. I'll see if I have some pictures of stumps used to tie off on. There are pictures of safe ways to rig on the WA state labor and industries site. You might look for that too. Ooops, I forgot to mention that the twisters are hooked to other notched, stumps or trees. They are used a lot when a suitable stump can't be found or the soils are shallow making for weaker roots.

 

[dkmlever]

Have you looked at getting a skidding cone? I use one to prevent the front end of the log digging in or getting hung up on a stump. www.novajack.com

 

[slowp]

Here's some pictures of skyline rigging. Note how high the tail tree is and they got full suspension because of it. This ground was almost too flat to work well and they had to hang up in a tree for each road. The skyline runs through the blocks on the tail tree and is anchored to a stump behind. However, if your slope is shaped right, or you have enough power, you can skip the tail tree and just hang on a stump like you were doing, I think? The other two show the anchor tree/stump with notching and shackles. I don't have any twister pictures though. Another idea, got any friends with an old D-6? They make good anchors too. This might give you some ideas on how the big boys rig.

 

[spencerhenry]

cable skidder, cable skidder, cable skidder.

that would make it really easy

 

[Sprig]

Um, cut the end of the logs pointed? Make a little sled for the nose that you can cinch to the log? dunno, Like the skider-cone idea too, though never seen one in use.



Serge

 

[Spotted Owl]

Is there any way to short choke or double choke it? That way it will come out kind of sideways almost instead of straight.


Instead of comming out like this ------------------> and digging





It would haul out like this /
/ >
/
/


Skidding side first abit would eliminate the digging quite a lot.

I know the thing above isn't much, but it may help.

Oh and there is a guy down the Oregon coast from us that can and has mounted a type of yarder tube in the back of a PU. A portable yarder would be most useful it sounds like. Only problem is the weight and that it only holds about 1500' of 5/8 drum line.


Owl

 

[turnkey4099]

Skidding cone is good but a bit of scrounging will accoplish the same thing for nothing.

A hood off a car (one of hte old ones that is somewhat boat shaped) with a hole torched in the 'prow'. Jam edge of hood under log (only needs an inch or two), run cable through hole, around log, pull. Log will usually pull right up on it.

Can do the same thing with a piece of flat scrap iron with a 30 degree (approx) bend in it, just needs to be a foot or so wide.

I had one of the latter I used with my garden tractor dragging #1 RR ties around for fencing.

Harry K

 

[da new feller]

hey guys, you got me think'n!!!

when picking up branches and such i use a small p/u trk. bed liner and drag debris to where it will be burned and just winch it up a tree to empty it. the damn thing is nearly bullet proof. a buddy of mine was laughing at it one day and he purposly fell 2 trees across it. about 3 days later when i found it under the pile of trees and branches it was flat as a pancake, i emptied it out and threw it out in the sun and the next thing we knew , there it was, standing proud with just 1 hole through the bottom from a branch. thanks for the input and i'll let you know how it works.

this is an unrelated but fairly irritating topic to me. i picked up a 064 several months ago and i can get it to idle and sound good. i hit the throttle and it just screams, once it gets into the wood it falls flat on it's face. while cutting through a log i can adjust the carb to where it runs and sounds great. once through the log or i come down to an idle it dies. in order to start it again i have to play with the carb. i took it to the local stihl dealer and they had it for two weeks and they couldn't even get it started. at any rate you guys come across as being intelligent and don't seem to mind helping a guy out so i just thought i'd run it by you.

thanks for the ideas on retrieving them logs. Jon

did you happen to see the one in occupational deaths and injuries where that guy knocked himself out with his own splitting maul? it hurts just thinking 'bout it. no, really...... it does.

thanks again.

 

[slowp]

Here's some pictures for you to ponder when you expand your logging. :deadhorse:
I've always liked saying, Grabinski.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/yarding/cableyardingsystem.html

 

[joesawer]

Welcome New Feller.
Your 064 sounds like it might have a vacuum leak. Post your questions about it in the chainsaw forum, there are some really good techs that give some very good advice.

 

[2dogs]

What turnkey is describing I would call a stone boat. An old 1930s car hood is an ideal shape. However a piece of 3/16 plate bent and a few rings welded on it should work OK. However if you actually have a 60 degree slope that is VERY steep.

We have a Koller 300 yarder a little on the, ahem, rough side but it still works all right. It has a Koller (hydraulic) carriage and is pretty simple to use. I have always loved rigging "cable systems" for firewood gathering. I'm always on ebay looking for rigging supplies and have quite a collection. I'm careful in what I rig and have never had a problem. Good luck.

 

[slowp]

Here's a Koller. This one is pulled around to the landing by a log truck or skidder. The operator is on the ground, the controls are at ground level with a partial cage around it. This one has an extension to raise the tower higher, uses 4 guylines, and has a motorized carriage. They have a yarder engineer who also does the unhooking and a guy in the brush, who hooks up the logs.
Another family member falls, loads and drives log truck. This is a standing skyline set up. They use a processor, seen in the background, to cut the trees into the lengths they want.

 

[2dogs]

Our Koller is older, smaller, shorter, less powerful, and a bunch uglier. But it does get the job done. I was the yarder engineer on a job in a watershed where were yarding up old cars and tons, literally, of old tires.
It was a place where junk and stolen cars were pushed off the road into a canyon and they had lain there for years. The job was actually quite fun.

 

[hermit63]

pulling logs

As for the saw dont run it till you get the fule line replaced and the carb rebuilt, most obvios places for the vac leak. that saw is a brute.

I have used the live skyline and you can set it up with just two pulleys, one for travel and the other below it for your winch line.

the old timers used a "go devil" to keep the butts from digging in. Its just a piece of crotch wood (a 'Y') fasten a board across the Y part put the butt end on that, and sinch it down conect the winch line to or thru the single part of the Y and to the butt. it helps if your crotch has a natural sweep. The only problem I found out with the one i built it tends to flip over when you realy get going.

 

[da new feller]

hey hermit....

so what you are saying is you run your skyline, hang a pulley off it, and put a pulley off that pulley to run the winch line through. at this point i only have the one pulley so what i tried was running the skyline with a pulley on it and hanging off the pulley i had a chain hoist to raise the front of the logs up and had my winch cable attached to the pulley to pull the works up the hill. unfortunately, for me, yesterday i was loading some 20' sticks of doug. fir onto a trailer w/ my winch and smoked some wires off one of the solenoids. so i spent the whole day loading 5 20'ers (17"-20" small end around 2500lbs. ea.) just to find when i left i couldn't get any momentum starting on the uphill grade where i'm at. it would be nice if i could anchor my truck at the top of the hill and winch the trailer up. this is one of those jobs where i am exchanging the work for the wood. so you can imagine i'm right about even at this point so the winch, fuel, oil, etc......puts me in the hole. at the beginning of this job my girlfriend said "wouldn't it be cheaper to hand the guy $250 a just come home". should've listened.

jon (sorry, didn't mean to vent)