Reading the posts about the new Jonny Reds got me to thinking. Looking into my crystal ball, I can see E-Lux trying to get rid of Tilton. Makes sense to be the one holding all the cards and dealing those cards down in Shreveport (SP?) don't it? All things E-Lux, handled by the manufacturer, passed out to the box stores and dealers alike, by the manufacturer? Sounds a lot like the McCullough and Homelite trail to me. There are too many similarities for this to be a coinsidence. When the proverbial $#!t hit the fan w/ Mac and Homelite, only the prosaws were available at the dealers, right? That way, the manufacturers had a source for repair of their box store crap. History has a way of repeating itself. Seems like the manufacturers forgot who brung um to the dance! "Total Source" is the answer, just ask them.
E-Lux forces Tilton out!
- Thread starter seesaw
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
u fellas were watching the homelite -mac thing . i really was just usin ole blue when all that happened. but what u say sounds possible. product ignorance is the only thing lux has goin for it now ,
with there sales direction. lowes is telling everybody that husky is their pro saw,and poulan pro is their homeowner saw. with a few green saws left for the
folks, just want the cheapest they can buy.i think it will end up not working. either that or chainsaws could catch on as a fad that makes young men hip, like driven a big pretty truck is now.[could happen.] ive never seen so many good stout trucks al over the place that havnt ever hauled the first ld. mite get it dirty.
doubt this happening tho as there wouldnt be a tree left anywhere.
it ll all settle where it will and ill still have my saws of preference that i have now. hopefully anyhow.they going to have a hard sell on those nonadjustible carb saws for this user.
with there sales direction. lowes is telling everybody that husky is their pro saw,and poulan pro is their homeowner saw. with a few green saws left for the
folks, just want the cheapest they can buy.i think it will end up not working. either that or chainsaws could catch on as a fad that makes young men hip, like driven a big pretty truck is now.[could happen.] ive never seen so many good stout trucks al over the place that havnt ever hauled the first ld. mite get it dirty.
doubt this happening tho as there wouldnt be a tree left anywhere.
it ll all settle where it will and ill still have my saws of preference that i have now. hopefully anyhow.they going to have a hard sell on those nonadjustible carb saws for this user.Tony Snyder
Addicted to ArboristSite
I heard that Tilton has a very long term contract with Jonsered and a good working relationship. I hope it stays healthy. I don't want to see any more chainsaw sources go under.
I view this as just a Chevy vs GMC type of thing, similiar product, different dealers. The chain saw mafia vs Stihl, just makes for good competition.
I view this as just a Chevy vs GMC type of thing, similiar product, different dealers. The chain saw mafia vs Stihl, just makes for good competition.
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
A few years ago Electrolux was supposedly going to merge the lines into one homogenous group, with only paint colors separating them. They did that. Some of the older designs by Pioneer/Partner got recycled into new lives for a while as Poulan Pro, even as heavy-duty Jonsereds saws. Later the rumour was that all the green and Yellow saws would dissappear, and Jonsered would be the loss leader sold in box stores. Hasn't happened yet.
Up to a few years ago, the Jonsered saws sold in the southern and some southeastern states came from a distributor with the same street address as Husqvarna in Charlotte, NC. Charlotte also handled the Northwest and Alaska. I thought that seemed ominous. Tilton apparently now distributes for the entire continental US, with the exception of Cal, Nevada, and Hawaii (BeeTee's area). I don't know aabout Ak.
Now, Tilton, apparently seeing the handwriting on the wall, has manouevered itself to where they would be very hard to get rid of, and if they were forced out, would push extremely hard to replace as many of their Jonsered sales as possible with EFCO units.
E-lux might shake Tilton, but 75% of the Jonsered market in the USA would probably convert to EFCO or some other make...Because Tilton is already placing EFCO saws there anyway! In my area, Husqvarna is earning a bad reputation with dealers, and I doubdt if many Jonsered dealers that aren't already selling Husky would convert. Where Husky will not offer any kind of dealer support for low-volume guys, (I've heard in some cases not even agreeing to sell parts), Tilton seems willing to service small shops.
The bottom line is profit margin. As long as maintaining the current situation is in E-Lux'es best interest, look for it to continue, and I'd say Tilton has positioned themselves so.
Up to a few years ago, the Jonsered saws sold in the southern and some southeastern states came from a distributor with the same street address as Husqvarna in Charlotte, NC. Charlotte also handled the Northwest and Alaska. I thought that seemed ominous. Tilton apparently now distributes for the entire continental US, with the exception of Cal, Nevada, and Hawaii (BeeTee's area). I don't know aabout Ak.
Now, Tilton, apparently seeing the handwriting on the wall, has manouevered itself to where they would be very hard to get rid of, and if they were forced out, would push extremely hard to replace as many of their Jonsered sales as possible with EFCO units.
E-lux might shake Tilton, but 75% of the Jonsered market in the USA would probably convert to EFCO or some other make...Because Tilton is already placing EFCO saws there anyway! In my area, Husqvarna is earning a bad reputation with dealers, and I doubdt if many Jonsered dealers that aren't already selling Husky would convert. Where Husky will not offer any kind of dealer support for low-volume guys, (I've heard in some cases not even agreeing to sell parts), Tilton seems willing to service small shops.
The bottom line is profit margin. As long as maintaining the current situation is in E-Lux'es best interest, look for it to continue, and I'd say Tilton has positioned themselves so.
AJLOGGER
ArboristSite Operative
I have said this in another post and will probably get some backlash over this. This is the reason why I will not put husky at the top of my list when I buy saws. They are now selling them at Lowes, Sears, over the internet and out of catalogs like Northern Tool Sales. I am not that old I am only 24 yrs. old but me and my dad have cut a lot of wood and I am now doing tree work on the side, I have been around saws all my life and use to use homelites but they did the same thing e-lux is doing now. I am afraid that husky customer service and dealer sevice will go down the tubes
It is sad that Husky is selling saws from outlets that service, and set up the saws. But I work in a shop that sells both Husky and Stihl, and Husky sells by far the best Homeowner saw and is coming on strong with the comerical line!, I also hope that in tring to get a larger share of the market, Husqvarna has not set themself up for failure.
Methoss084
ArboristSite Operative
I hope that Tilton stays our Jonsered supplier, they are a great company to work with. One thing we've done is as soon as Husky hit Sears and Lowes we dropped all our Husky products. The remaining stock was given to the Boys and Girls club to be auctioned off as charity. We kept Jonsered on, because they swore up and down that they would be the "dealer line" saw and never would E-lux put that part of the company in the Big Box stores. We've all heard this before. Look at Snapper, they said a million times they wouldn't go Big Box. Then you see them sitting outside Wal-Mart. Now that Simplicity owns Snapper you know they won't be in front of a big box store ever again. I hope for E-lux's sake they stay true to their word on Jonsered. They have taken the easy $ path to bankruptcy with Husky.
Tony Snyder
Addicted to ArboristSite
I find that most folks who know there is a choice will buy from a servicing dealer vs Lowes. Note: I said those who know they have a choice. If they don't know you are there, then of course you won't get them.
I'm in a small town (3500), word gets around pretty good with a little help from local newspaper ads.
I'm in a small town (3500), word gets around pretty good with a little help from local newspaper ads.
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
i talked a homeowner out of buying from lowes yesterday and sent him to my stihl dealer instead
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
Ryan, One day I was in Home Depot and a guy was looking over a Homelite. Since I smelled like pre-mix and had some chips on my clothes the guy asked me what I thought of the saw he saw looking at. I asked him "If Home Depot thinks these saw are so good why do they rent Husqvarnas" I told him that the entry level saws from Stihl, HUsqvarna, and Jonsered were far superior to the p.o.s. Homelite he was looking at. He didn't buy a Homelite that day.
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
ive done that a number of times.
i think lowes an hd are having me watched when i come thru the doors now. mostly im just trying to helpum out if they dont know anything. but i would never point them to the green saws or homelite. these box stores got to get a high percentage of returns.
just going by some o the questions people ask.
i think lowes an hd are having me watched when i come thru the doors now.
mostly im just trying to helpum out if they dont know anything. but i would never point them to the green saws or homelite. these box stores got to get a high percentage of returns.just going by some o the questions people ask.
Methoss084
F.Y.I., Jonsered has already entered the Big Box arena. We have a chain of stores in Wisconsin and Illinois called Farm & Fleet. They used to carry Jonsered but it didn't sell. They now carry Husky. If F&F had it, I'm sure other box stores had or have it now.
What really bothered me about the Jonsered being in the local F&F was that they carried the pro saws, as well as, the entry level stuff. If a smaller chain of 30+ stores can swing that deal, imagine what a store w/huge buying power could leverage!
F.Y.I., Jonsered has already entered the Big Box arena. We have a chain of stores in Wisconsin and Illinois called Farm & Fleet. They used to carry Jonsered but it didn't sell. They now carry Husky. If F&F had it, I'm sure other box stores had or have it now.
What really bothered me about the Jonsered being in the local F&F was that they carried the pro saws, as well as, the entry level stuff. If a smaller chain of 30+ stores can swing that deal, imagine what a store w/huge buying power could leverage!
Brush Stomper
ArboristSite Member
While shopping for my last saw purchase,the only nearby husky dealer (actually the mechanic told me ) about their not handling Husqvarna any more and most their saws were gone. They took up the Echo line. I dont understand their thinking because Echos are already in Home Depot aren't they? Home Depot is not open here yet. They're building one now. Anyway, most of you on here discourged my Echo idea. I want to thank you for your answers to my questions in earlier posts. A week ago I bought a Stihl MS360 from our local Stihl dealer. I really like the saw. More money than a comparable Husqvarna from the on-line outfits,but I like to make those kinds of buys from someone that will be here for support if trouble arises and have parts on hand when needed. Time will tell, but after cutting about 1 and 1/2 cords of dead mesquite, I really like it. My wife really likes to cut too she uses an 018C Stihl. We have over 20 miles of fence lines on the place and mesquites are sure hard on fence lines. the battle goes on but the MS 360 kinda gives me the edge looks like.
Thanks
Thanks
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
SeeSaw, what was the pricing like at in the FleetFarm stores? Was there reason to believe the chain got a major concession over what a big dealer could get? Remember that chains will gladly trade short margins for volume.
I've heard before that some dealers get ticked at Tilton for back-door dealing. I talked to some guys working for Asplundh a couple of years ago, all shiny new 2065 Jonnys in their hands...they had come direct from regional warehouse, bypassing any dealer. I was thinking a lot of dealers might just jump at the chance to sell a few dozen saws on short margin just to build a service relationship, but then what do I know!
I guess my point is that Tilton probably was behind the deal at the FleetFarm stores, not E-lux. Several years ago lots and lots of dealers were pretty irate at the thought of having to compete with a chain for sales of what were once known as a premium line.
I've heard before that some dealers get ticked at Tilton for back-door dealing. I talked to some guys working for Asplundh a couple of years ago, all shiny new 2065 Jonnys in their hands...they had come direct from regional warehouse, bypassing any dealer. I was thinking a lot of dealers might just jump at the chance to sell a few dozen saws on short margin just to build a service relationship, but then what do I know!
I guess my point is that Tilton probably was behind the deal at the FleetFarm stores, not E-lux. Several years ago lots and lots of dealers were pretty irate at the thought of having to compete with a chain for sales of what were once known as a premium line.
Methoss084
ArboristSite Operative
I look at it this way. The distributor, no matter who they are
(with the excpetion of Stihl, they will take your first born if they catch you) will always try and sell saws out the back door if they can make a profit on it ie. Asplundh. Its all hush hush until the dealer gets one of these saws in on a warranty claim. On a similar note this past summer we got a Snapper rider in for warranty repair. It was a W machine (Walmart). We told the customer that he would have to wait 2-3 weeks while we caught up on backlog work and he went through the roof. Oh well, sorry. Lifes a ????? when you can't get that "save a dollar" machine fixed ASAP at your local serving dealer. You get what you pay for!
Might sound mean, but this business is getting tighter and tighter.
(with the excpetion of Stihl, they will take your first born if they catch you) will always try and sell saws out the back door if they can make a profit on it ie. Asplundh. Its all hush hush until the dealer gets one of these saws in on a warranty claim. On a similar note this past summer we got a Snapper rider in for warranty repair. It was a W machine (Walmart). We told the customer that he would have to wait 2-3 weeks while we caught up on backlog work and he went through the roof. Oh well, sorry. Lifes a ????? when you can't get that "save a dollar" machine fixed ASAP at your local serving dealer. You get what you pay for!
Might sound mean, but this business is getting tighter and tighter.
eyolf
The prices on those Jonsereds at Farm & Fleet or Fleet & Farm (whatever, due to location),as I remember, were pretty tastey! Very competitive.
Found out today that all Porter-Cable air compressors are made by DeVilbiss. Always thought of Porter-Cable as decent stuff and DeVilbiss as a second rate air comp. ...But anyway...
The prices on those Jonsereds at Farm & Fleet or Fleet & Farm (whatever, due to location),as I remember, were pretty tastey! Very competitive.
Found out today that all Porter-Cable air compressors are made by DeVilbiss. Always thought of Porter-Cable as decent stuff and DeVilbiss as a second rate air comp. ...But anyway...
Eyolf, you are correct of course, it was Tilton's deal gettin in Farm & Fleet. prices were ok..but the reason they didnt sell was because of Name recognition. The consumer segment of the market is about 200 times what the pro segment is men. AND the Jonny label is pretty well unknown there.
Tilton will continue to distribute the Jonsered name brand of equipment in the USA for as long as they want to, due to a very good and binding contract that ole R.E.Tilton had drawn up many years ago and the then current board of Big E signed, giving up the rights to the Jonsered name for distributions sake in their contractually defined territory. BeeTee sales , has EXACTLY the same contract for their territory.
This was the same era and board that BTW gave up the rights to the trade name "Electrolux" in the USA, now trademarked and owned by the Vacuum sweeper fellas, and are NOT corporatly related at all to sweden.
This is the Era that the Swedes remember as "The Time the American Lawyers screwed us"...this is the closest translation of the words the swedes use, and that Board of directors are generally remembered unfavorably.
Theroetically, the only way Big E can get Tilton out of the pic is to force them out with pricing practices, and other things that will make the saws hard to sell, and the current pres of Husqvarna USA (DZ) would probably like nothing better! The only thing stopping them that I'm aware of is the threat by Tilton to simply have another manufacturer brand label the Jonsered name on another saw, which they said they would do several years ago when Big E started squeezing them on prices. (lessee, that was bout 12 years ago this xmas...exactly). One thin now may be different tho...it wont be Oleo-Mac that makes it for obvious reasons.
Here if ya want some speculation...simply for thought,
Big E puts another squeeze on Tilton, because of pressure and influence by Dave Zerfoss, and Tilton tells em to go take a hike, and then goes to one of the few places left where they can get a SAW made fer em, outside of the Big E Umbrella, (Germany or Japan) and in North America we get a NEW line yup of Jonny Red's...and they say on the tag. "MADE IN GERMANY" !
Sound wild???...actually, the chances of this happening are a heck of alot better than the chances of Husqvarna still building pro-saws (with the Husky name on em) of any caliber and still being on the Servicing Dealers shelf in 5 years.
hehe ...now, think on that fellas!
Tilton will continue to distribute the Jonsered name brand of equipment in the USA for as long as they want to, due to a very good and binding contract that ole R.E.Tilton had drawn up many years ago and the then current board of Big E signed, giving up the rights to the Jonsered name for distributions sake in their contractually defined territory. BeeTee sales , has EXACTLY the same contract for their territory.
This was the same era and board that BTW gave up the rights to the trade name "Electrolux" in the USA, now trademarked and owned by the Vacuum sweeper fellas, and are NOT corporatly related at all to sweden.
This is the Era that the Swedes remember as "The Time the American Lawyers screwed us"...this is the closest translation of the words the swedes use, and that Board of directors are generally remembered unfavorably.
Theroetically, the only way Big E can get Tilton out of the pic is to force them out with pricing practices, and other things that will make the saws hard to sell, and the current pres of Husqvarna USA (DZ) would probably like nothing better! The only thing stopping them that I'm aware of is the threat by Tilton to simply have another manufacturer brand label the Jonsered name on another saw, which they said they would do several years ago when Big E started squeezing them on prices. (lessee, that was bout 12 years ago this xmas...exactly). One thin now may be different tho...it wont be Oleo-Mac that makes it for obvious reasons.
Here if ya want some speculation...simply for thought,
Big E puts another squeeze on Tilton, because of pressure and influence by Dave Zerfoss, and Tilton tells em to go take a hike, and then goes to one of the few places left where they can get a SAW made fer em, outside of the Big E Umbrella, (Germany or Japan) and in North America we get a NEW line yup of Jonny Red's...and they say on the tag. "MADE IN GERMANY" !
Sound wild???...actually, the chances of this happening are a heck of alot better than the chances of Husqvarna still building pro-saws (with the Husky name on em) of any caliber and still being on the Servicing Dealers shelf in 5 years.
hehe ...now, think on that fellas!
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
Now, THAT's an very interesting thought. And, as I think about it, something that one of the partners in a recently opened OPE store said seems to make more sense: something about the "future looking a lot clearer for some lines than others".
Can it be that the Tilton rep's know something not for public consumption?
I gather clues where I can about the OPE industry, I guess I never quite got over the job I lost when the distributor I worked for imploded during the crappy economic times of the '80's. One thing I've noticed is that Tilton seems to have gained Jonsered distribution rights for most of the USA, where a sizeable portion of same was formerly handled on the same street as Husky in Charlotte.
Without challenging you on Zerfoss, I would submit that while E-lux management probably isn't a very altruistic bunch, I doubt if they are stupid either. If they can make the Tilton arrangement work out profitably, I'm sure they don't have that much love for one color over another. Granted, the other Husky products may convert some shoppers to Husky after a good experience with their lawnmower, but how much market share is that really worth? (Convince me, I'm open!) Besides, Jonsered is starting to market some of this stuff, too.
Further, I imagine there are at least some international markets that Jons has penetrated though Husky has not, making it more sensible to service the well-known marque than to start over again. For that reason, I believe that we'll continue to see red Huskies for at least a while.
Though I drool at the thought of a really tight relationship with a German saw maker known of late for private-labelling some product!
Can it be that the Tilton rep's know something not for public consumption?
I gather clues where I can about the OPE industry, I guess I never quite got over the job I lost when the distributor I worked for imploded during the crappy economic times of the '80's. One thing I've noticed is that Tilton seems to have gained Jonsered distribution rights for most of the USA, where a sizeable portion of same was formerly handled on the same street as Husky in Charlotte.
Without challenging you on Zerfoss, I would submit that while E-lux management probably isn't a very altruistic bunch, I doubt if they are stupid either. If they can make the Tilton arrangement work out profitably, I'm sure they don't have that much love for one color over another. Granted, the other Husky products may convert some shoppers to Husky after a good experience with their lawnmower, but how much market share is that really worth? (Convince me, I'm open!) Besides, Jonsered is starting to market some of this stuff, too.
Further, I imagine there are at least some international markets that Jons has penetrated though Husky has not, making it more sensible to service the well-known marque than to start over again. For that reason, I believe that we'll continue to see red Huskies for at least a while.
Though I drool at the thought of a really tight relationship with a German saw maker known of late for private-labelling some product!
Who might that be? Solo? Dolmar? If elux pimped Tilton it would be all Solo needed to compete with the big boys. Quality and perfomance are there. They only need a better distribution system/ deler network and a little bit of name recognition.
