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02/08/2004 04:26:26
In Midwest, Beetle Eats at Tree Industry; Nurseries Lose Sales From Ash Trees

John Seewer
Source: The Washington Post
Date: February 08, 2004
Section: A Section
Page: A17

Associated Press

A Chinese beetle that crept into Ohio after killing millions of ash trees in Michigan is eating away at the tree industry in states much farther away.

West Coast nursery owners who supply the Midwest with seedlings say there are fewer customers willing to take a chance on ash trees, once a popular choice for their hardiness.

"There's a surplus of ash trees right now because people aren't sure what's going to happen," said Devin Cooper, owner of Willamette Nurseries in Canby, Ore. "We've had people cut back orders and cancel orders."

He has 70,000 seedlings worth about $40,000 that he can't get rid of. "I don't know if I'll have to burn them or replant them," Cooper said.

Scientists believe the emerald ash borer arrived in the United States from its native China with wood used to pack cargo. The beetle has infested or destroyed about 6 million ash trees in southeast Michigan, mostly near Detroit, and has been found in northwest Ohio and Maryland.

At North Branch Nursery in Pemberville, Ohio, near Toledo, a field of about 2,700 ash trees probably will be turned into mulch, said owner Tom Oberhouse. The loss could be as much as $300,000.

"Our trees are healthy, but there's no market for them," said Oberhouse, who, in a good year, sells about 1,200 ash trees to landscapers and garden centers. In 2003, he sold 200.

He will not be buying any more ash seedlings from Oregon, where he usually would get as many as 25,000 seedlings a year.

Nursery owners who supply trees in the Midwest already are trying to figure out what trees will replace the ash.

"It's kind of ironic, because we're growing and selling more hybrid elms that are resistant to Dutch elm disease," Oberhouse said.

That disease carried by bark beetles has ravaged more than half the nation's elm population after being discovered in Ohio in the 1930s. Many towns that lost elm trees replaced them with ash trees, thought to be disease-resistant.

Some tree growers have turned to maples and poplars instead of ash.

"There's no sense in planting them if they're not going to sell," said Clayton Wilcher, who runs Wilcher's Nursery in Rock Island, Tenn. "I'm waiting to see what happens. If it settles down, maybe in three or four years it will blow over."

For that to happen, researchers must find a way to stop the beetle from spreading. So far, there's no insecticide that can do it, and the beetle doesn't have any known natural predators.

"Right now the only control is chopping down the trees," said Bill Stalter, executive director of the Ohio Nursery and Landscape Association. Its survey of 100 tree growers in Ohio found that the combined value of their ash trees was $20.2 million.

Michigan has banned the sale of ash trees in the Lower Peninsula through August in hopes of gaining control of the pest. In southeastern Michigan, where the ash borer was first detected last year, tree growers have lost at least $9 million in sales. That does not include losses by retail garden centers and landscapers.

"It's just devastating to our industry here," said Amy Frankmann, executive director of the Michigan Nursery and Landscape Association. "It was the tree of choice. It grew anywhere through drought or rain."

She said one tree grower has lost $1 million in sales, and it will cost $500,000 just to remove his trees from the fields.

Ash trees can take from three to five years to mature from seedlings, so many growers are facing a difficult choice on whether to plant the trees without knowing what is ahead.

"I think the cautious grower is going to sit back and see what happens," Stalter said. "Wholesale growers are going to hold off."

http://www.washingtonpost.com

FSELCTviaNewsEdge

:pAGE: A17
:SUBJECT: OH MI OR CHIN MD TN

Copyright (c) 2004 Dow Jones Reuters Business Interactive LLC (Factiva)
Received by NewsEdge Insight: 02/08/2004 04:26:26
 
Originally posted by Mike Maas
Guy, what would your plan include?
PHC. Note I said early on I'm far from this problem and am not qualified to lead the campaign against it. What I hate is the media distorting facts to suit the govt plan; makes a steamroller/bandwagon effect when there should be an honest analysis of the problem and an honest weighing of alternatives.
 
While I have NOT seen firsthand the devastation that this bug has caused, I have seen pictures...

The honest evaluation is that it has the potential, if left unchecked, to destroy ALL of the ash trees in the country.

The honest evaluation of methods of control is that the only KNOWN method at this point is that which is being done. PERIOD.

I'm sure though that there is much research being conducted right now on this bug, and I would think that within a year or two another alternative will come about. If the cultural revolution hadn't occured in China, we might know much more at this point than we do (I don't think I posted that info... I'll have to check and post it later if need be).

How long did it take to find out that Merit controlled the ALB?


Dan
 
I don't know what to say about this.... I'd like to say "only in Canada", but I know there are hacks here that would be capable of this.... I'm actually not too surprised that it happened though.

How can you mistake a walnut for an ash????


Dan
---------------------------------------------
Wrongly felled trees valued at $100,000

Miriam Ivison met with CFIA officials to discuss compensation for the trees she lost.

DAN BLOUIN, Special to The Free Press
2004-02-11 03:29:00

The apologies keep raining down, but they're not making Miriam Ivison's walnut trees grow back any faster. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) is cutting down all the ash trees in a 10-kilometre deep swath near Chatham-Kent to stop the spread of the emerald ash borer.

Contractors mistook 70 black walnut trees on Ivison's farm for ash and chopped them down. She estimates the wood was worth more than $100,000.

Ivison met with a CFIA representative yesterday to discuss what would be done.

"We had a good meeting. I talked with the company and we're both looking at prices," she said.

MP Gerry Ritz, the opposition agriculture critic in Ottawa, said federally hired contractors shouldn't be the ones tagging the ash trees.

"They'd better hire someone who can tell one tree from another," Ritz said from Saskatchewan.

Jerry Pickard (L - Chatham-Kent-Essex) is Ivison's MP. He thought CFIA would be identifying the trees to be cut down.

"I thought there were mechanisms in place to ensure this sort of thing didn't happen," he said. "I think it's a horrendous incident."

Pickard added the value of Ivison's trees must be assessed and compensation made, although "it won't in any way make up for the loss of these mature trees."

Ken Marchant, a forestry specialist with the CFIA, said it was "operationally more efficient" for contractors to mark the trees to be cut.

Marchant added CFIA "could do it if we had to," but it would pull staff away from other areas.

Tendering documents on which contracts to tree cutters were based say the contractor "must be able to identify an ash tree . . . and be a qualified utility tree trimmer well versed and skilled in the area of tree removal."

Every employee must be "properly trained, equipped and considered competent to perform designated work tasks," the document says.

It also requires "minimum impact" to surrounding trees and says "removal of the wrong type of tree will be the contractors' responsibility and the contractor will make compensation to the landowner."

Marchant said six companies are cutting in the ash- free zone.

He refused to name any of them, citing "government regulations" prohibiting it.

Pickard, however, said the identity of the company that mistakenly cut the wrong trees should be public information.

In the end, Ivison said there's only so much that can be done.

"It would have been nice to have the trees back there," she said. "We'll just have to come to an agreement."



Copyright © The London Free Press 2001,2002,2003
 
wrong trees

It's hard to believe the guy with a chainsaw didn't notice he was cutting the wrong kind of tree or is it that once marked the tree goes? The trees look different, smell different and taste different.
 
Originally posted by Dan F
Contractors mistook 70 black walnut trees on Ivison's farm for ash and chopped them down. She estimates the wood was worth more than $100,000.
That's $1400 each, which may be low. Will the appraiser use trunk formula or Cost of Cure? It's value at harvest that counts, and that may well be over $1400.

This collateral damage is just one more problem with the meat-ax approach. Not surprising at all; the level of goons released by govt work is as low as you can get. ( I know, I've been one!) Oversight as we see here is minimal; the govt approach may not be "operationally more efficient" when you factor in work like this.

Will the eradication be fiscally or environmentally efficient? I highly doubt it, but I'm staying tuned...Dan did you read that letter from the MI arborist yet?
 
Accidents do happen; we all know govt contractors follow thehighest ethical standards:angel:. A followup on this story would be interesting to see.
 
Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
That's $1400 each, which may be low. Will the appraiser use trunk formula or Cost of Cure? It's value at harvest that counts, and that may well be over $1400.


that does sound like timber value, dose it not.
 
Another article from MI.

Guy- can you scan it and send it to me so I can read it? Or point me to a link where it may be located? I would like to read it.


Dan
--------------------------
Ash trees will be cut down to fight insect

Thursday, February 12, 2004

By John Hogan
The Grand Rapids Press


WYOMING -- Every ash tree within a half-mile of Wyoming's Home Depot store will be removed by mid-May in an attempt to halt migration of an aggressive, ash-killing insect that hitched a ride here from metro Detroit.

The kill zone could expand up to two miles, putting thousands of trees at risk in Wyoming's older neighborhoods and its largest park.

"If it's an ash tree, eventually it will probably be cut down, and that is not going to change until research suggests otherwise," said James McRay, a spokesman for the state's emerald ash borer eradication program.

Landscape trees planted about 1 1/2 years ago outside the 54th Street SW store were unknowingly infested with the emerald ash borer, which has killed more than 6 million ash trees in southeast Michigan.

The insect established a toehold, and now has turned up in ash trees along 54th Street toward U.S. 131. Infested trees do not survive.

"The Wyoming site is a high priority because it is the farthest outpost from the known infested area around Detroit," said Sara Linsmeier-Wurfel, a spokeswoman for the Michigan Department of Agriculture.

Up until last summer, the pest mostly was a problem in metro Detroit.

Wyoming residents in the affected areas will be notified by mail of the state's plan, Linsmeier-Wurfel said.

"I'm not thrilled about losing trees anywhere," said Mary Baker, 46, whose home on 55th Court SW is near the affected zone. From her driveway she can see Home Depot's orange-and-white marquee to the north.

Her yard has white pines, not ash. Still, she is wary of the inevitable whine of chain saws in a nearby woods. "These trees are all part of the ecological balance," Baker said.

Wyoming is one of seven areas targeted for tree removal. The state developed a strategy for containing the ash borer's spread after a series of public hearings last month, including one in Grand Rapids, said Dan Wyant, director of the Michigan Department of Agriculture.

The hearings made clear that "every effort should be made to stop (the ash borer) to save the ash resources in Michigan and beyond," Wyant said.

State agriculture workers toting cans of orange spray paint will mark an "X" on every ash tree they find.

"We anticipate it may be an area somewhere between 1 1/2 to two miles around that Home Depot that will be impacted," McRay said. "We'll meet with the public twice before we start cutting trees."

Only a fraction of ash trees slated for removal are mature species in parks and back yards. Most are less than 10 inches in diameter, growing along hedges and in wooded lots, McRay said.

And if you have an ash tree with orange berries, don't worry. It is a mountain ash, which is not bothered by the emerald ash borer.

This beetle favors white, green and blue ash, which grow 80 to 90 feet tall and commonly are found along riverbanks and in areas with moist soil, though they can adapt to many conditions.

Felled trees will be chipped on site and the woodchips trucked to an incinerator near Flint, McRay said.

Work crews today are expected to finish marking ash trees in the Eaton County community of Potterville, southwest of Lansing, which has 10,000 slated for removal. About 13,000 trees have been targeted for removal in Delta Township west of Lansing.

Up to 20,000 ash trees in Saginaw County, near M-46 in Shields, will come down the week of Feb. 23, Linsmeier-Wurfel said.

Ash trees in Calhoun County, Berrien County and sites along the St. Clair River in St. Clair County also will come down.

If Wyoming's target zone fans out two miles, at least seven parks, including Wyoming's Palmer Park and adjoining L.E. Kaufman golf course, will be affected.

John Viveen's home on Havana Avenue SW backs up to the golf course. He has feeders out back, drawing birds from woods bisected by Buck Creek.

"When I first moved here, it was all woods around here, but now it's built up," said Viveen, 85, who has lived in the same home for 47 years. The prospect of losing trees, he said, is "horrible."

Fortunately for the neighborhood, most of the mature trees are white oak.

Although drastic, the state hopes its chain saw massacre will contain the emerald ash borer before it threatens more of Michigan's estimated 700 million ash trees.

The exotic insect was identified by Michigan scientists in May 2002, even though it is believed to have been here for at least five years. It creates S-shaped tunnels that eventually kill the tree.

To date, it has been found or detected in 14 of Michigan's 83 counties. To halt the beetle's spread, 13 counties are under quarantine, meaning no ash wood may be moved outside them.

The July 2002 quarantine came too late to help West Michigan.

Infected nursery stock left metro Detroit, with some earmarked for 17 acres on the north side of 54th Street where Home Depot and Aldi's Grocery opened new stores.

Wyoming city officials said they are aware of the eradication plan, although it was not immediately known how many ash trees are located on city property.

This attack is unnerving for scores of cities that turned to ash trees for their ability to survive tough urban conditions -- road salt, pollution, compacted soil, and soil that has been dug up. One subdivision in the Detroit area, for example, allowed residents to plant only maple and ash trees.

In Grand Rapids, officials estimate about 10 percent of trees along city streets are ash.

Ash lumber is a hardwood similar to oak and is used in kitchen cabinets, furniture, flooring and baseball bats.

Among trees slated for removal in Wyoming are relatively young ashes planted by Girl Scouts along U.S. 131, McRay said.



© 2004 Grand Rapids Press. Used with permission

Copyright 2004 Michigan Live. All Rights Reserved
 
I wonder how they figure out that the insect has not moved out side the 1.5 mile circle. Do you think it has occured to them them that a flying insect might get hungry after the ash are removed and go look for more trees outside the circle or be forced to eat a non-Ash?
On a windy day, I would guess they might be able to move pretty far.
This all seems too little, too late.
 
Now Mike, you're starting to sound like Guy!:D

I took notes at the conferance a month ago, but I don't have them on hand right now. Basically, from what I remember, there was a fair amount of research done on EAB in China in the 1960's. However, when the cultural revolution occured, that research was lost. The man who conducted that research is now very elderly, and, well, you know what happens when you get old. Heck, I'm not that old at all and I have a hard time remembering what I ate yesterday!

Additional info: There are 160 other native Agrillus (not sure if that's spelled right) species that will attack ash, however, EAB is the only one that leaves the "D" shaped exit hole. It is also the only one that attacks otherwise healthy trees. All other Agrillus species usually don't attack ash unless the tree is under stress of some sort.

I'm surprised that they are still only using the 1.5 mile radius. At the conferance, it was stated that the EAB could fly up to 6 km (over 3 miles), and I have seen a report that said they could fly up to 10 km (6 miles).

Indiana *has* had an EAB finding. I believe there was a single dead adult beetle found in Hunington. It had to get here somehow, it's just a matter of time before live ones are found....


Dan
 
Originally posted by Dan F
Another article from MI.

Guy- can you scan it and send it to me so I can read it? Or point me to a link where it may be located? I would like to read it.
Dan I can't scan it and it is not in an archive. Doesn't Purdue subscribe to it? Why don't you--it's free!

"If it's an ash tree, eventually it will probably be cut down, and that is not going to change until research suggests otherwise," said James McRay, a spokesman for the state's emerald ash borer eradication program.
If we're relying on guys in the field with this mindset we're in trouble! What research will be convincing enough, now that the steamroller is in action, fueled by media lies and hysteria?

Foresters cut. Arborists treat. Is there any arboricultural data out there?
 
I'm sure someone at Purdue has it. However, I'm an hour south of Purdue, so I'll have to hit Dad up on bringing a copy the next time he visits the 'lil one.:D

I'll subscribe to it, but it's a little late to get that copy!


Dan
 
I got 3 articles in my inbox today, the second one says basically the same as the first but goes more in depth, but I'll go ahead and post the first one anyway...

How come I'm the only one posting articles? Is no one else reading any anywhere else?


Dan
------------------------------
Emerald Ash Borer

DETROIT -- They fought the bug, and the bug won. The state is giving up
after a two-year battle to eradicate an Asian tree-munching beetle in
southeast Michigan.

That means the area's 12 million ash trees won't be saved. The focus
now
shifts to a 43 million dollar effort preventing the emerald ash borer
from
spreading. Michigan officials say the Detroit area must be sacrificed
to
save the rest of the state's 700 million ash trees. All ash trees will
be
removed within a half-mile of infested areas. Most will be cut down
before
mid-May.

Thirteen Michigan counties have been quarantined since the neon green
beetle
was discovered in 2002.

Posted 9:27 p.m. Sunday, February 15th
Associated Press
 
This is the second article. Says more than the first.

----------------------------------
Published February 16, 2004

State sacrifices 12 million ash trees
With beetle battle lost in Detroit area, containment is goal

On the Web
Associated Press

DETROIT - After a two-year battle between southeast Michigan and an
Asian
tree-munching beetle, the bug won, ending any lingering hope that the
area's
12 million ash trees somehow may be saved.

The focus now shifts to a $43 million effort preventing the emerald ash
borer from spreading throughout Michigan.

State officials are apologetic, but said the Detroit area must be
sacrificed
to save the rest of the state's 700 million ash trees.

Thirteen Michigan counties in southeastern and mid-Michigan have been
quarantined since the ash borer was discovered in the state in May
2002,
including Ingham County. And earlier this month, about 13,000 ash trees
were
marked for destruction in Delta Township.

"We're trying to minimize the damage and prevent it from spreading to
the
rest of the state, Great Lakes, Canada and the rest of the continent,"
said
Sara Linsmeier-Wurfel, spokeswoman of the state Department of
Agriculture.
"People are watching. We have to stop this."

Dan Wyant, the state's agriculture director, signed off last week on a
two-step approach to stopping the neon green beetle.

First, all ash trees will be removed within a half-mile of infested
areas in
the Saginaw County town of Shields; Delta Township and Potterville in
Eaton
County; Marshall in Calhoun County; Wyoming in Kent County; St. Joseph
in
Berrien County; and sites along the St. Clair River in St. Clair
County.

Later this year or next, the state will isolate the bug by cutting a
half-mile "firebreak" around southeast Michigan, Linsmeier-Wurfel said.
Surveyors are still determining where to chop.

State inspectors spent much of the past year trying to determine how
far
the
beetle has advanced. They have examined campgrounds, nurseries and
other
places where infested wood might have been taken.

Most of the ash tree removal should take place before mid-May, when
adult
ash borers are expected to begin flying and depositing eggs on
previously
uninfected trees.

The agriculture department will work with local officials and residents
before marking and removing trees.

Ironically, southeast Michigan is vulnerable to the beetle because ash
trees
were planted as replacements to trees lost to Dutch elm disease,
Linsmeier-Wurfel said.
 
Emerald ash borer could decimate region's ash trees

By TIM BUCEY, News-Sun Staff Writer

Scarff's Nursery and Landscape in New Carlisle has about 4,000 ash
trees
in various stages of production, but few may ever take root in this
area.

The market for ash trees has all but disappeared with the emerald ash
borer insect being found in Ohio.

As a result, an all-out battle to save Ohio's ash has begun.

The emerald ash borer insect hasn't reached Clark or Champaign counties
- and it might not - but local homeowners and landscapers already are
being affected. Ash trees have been phased out of most design plans
here
and throughout Ohio.

A major part of the defensive game plan involves cutting down all ash
trees within a one-quarter-mile radius of infected trees.

So far, the emerald ash borer has been found in five Ohio counties -
Lucas, Defiance, Paulding and Wood in the Toledo area and Franklin. The
infestation in Franklin was found outside the Lexus auto repair shop
near the Easton Town Center in Columbus.

The consequences of not eradicating the insect could be devastating,
said Dan Herms, entomologist with the Ohio Agricultural Research and
Development Center.

Estimates are that more than 6 million ash trees are dead or dying
primarily in the Detroit and Windsor, Ontario, areas where the insect
first was introduced to North America on shipments from Asia.

Nineteen months ago, Herms had never heard of the emerald ash borer.
Now, it's the primary focus of his work.

He said the insect can be put in the same dangerous class as the Dutch
elm disease and chestnut blight that struck in the 1950s.

"The difference being those two were fungal pathogens and this is an
insect. This is the most devastating insect ever introduced into North
America from another continent. No question about it," Herms said.

Green, white and blue ash trees are popular for landscaping and grow in
abundance in Ohio forests. It's estimated Ohio has 3.8 billion white
ash
trees. The emerald ash borer attacks all species of ash trees.

Ash are considered beautiful shade trees, produce outstanding fall
colors and don't have surface roots, like maples.

"Before this, if you would have said, 'Tell me the most perfect tree to
plant in my yard that doesn't get insect problems, has good shape, good
color, grows nicely,' I would have told you ash. Now, I don't know what
to tell you," said Pam Corle Bennett, horticulturist, Ohio State
University Extension, Clark County.

Peter Scarff, owner of Scarff's Nursery and Landscape in New Carlisle,
said the market for ash in this area has all but disappeared. Most of
what they sold last year was shipped to wholesalers in other states.

Scarff canceled his ash tree order for this year and expects the market
to be affected for at least two years and perhaps for decades.

He called ash popular because it is beautiful, it's a native tree and
one of the most versatile trees in this area.

Landscapers, though, have become gun-shy about recommending or using
ash
in Ohio.

Scarff doesn't believe the emerald ash borer will reach here naturally.
Research shows it can fly only about six miles, but he can't chance
selling it without warning the buyer.

"What happens if I know about emerald ash borer, and I'm sure it's not
going to get here, but it does and five years down the road a customer
says, 'Hey, you knew about this yet you sold me an ash,' " Scarff said.

Customers can ask for it, but it's a buyer-beware market. An ash tree
can cost from $80 to $400, depending on its size.

Terry Fredrich, owner of Habitat Creations of Ohio in Springfield, made
the decision early last year to no longer plant ash trees.

"Once I see we can effectively keep this insect from spreading I will
go
back to using ash trees. Until then, I have not 'spec-ed' in any ash on
any homeowner sites," he said.

He planted only one last year at the insistence of a homeowner who was
informed about the infestation elsewhere and the possible consequences.

Fredrich said it was the second most widely used shade tree, behind
maple. He's using more maples and less common trees, such as black gum,
to make up for the moratorium on ash.

Scarff sees it as ironic that landscapers have begun using more elm,
which is now making a comeback after being devastated by Dutch elm
disease in the 1950s.

"There is really no plant that can take its place because it is so
versatile," Scarff said of ash.

Treatments are available but Herms and Bennett don't recommend spending
the money because even healthy trees are cut down within a specified
radius of an infested area.

"The vast majority of trees in Ohio are not at risk and we always try
to
discourage unnecessary pesticide applications," Herms said.

One resident can have a tree treated in his yard, but if a neighbor's
gets infected both trees will be removed.

Being told a tree has to be removed can be emotional for some as it was
in Whitehouse, near Toledo, the largest infestation area found in Ohio.

There were 8,000 ash trees cut down in that area in an effort to stop
the infestation, although only 40 were known to have the borer.

"It is extremely emotional and we have seen that emotion run pretty
high, and it's easy to understand," Herms said.

Trees often have sentimental value.

Property owners threatened Ohio Department of Agriculture personnel who
were coming onto their land to cut down healthy trees that were in the
one-quarter-mile targeted radius.

Residents had to be issued a restraining order before cutting could
continue.

Eradication plans in other affected areas are being made by the state
Department of Agriculture.

Hicksville (Defiance County) has more infested trees than Whitehouse -
500 to 1,000 - but not as many in the targeted radius.

Spread of the emerald ash borer into Ohio has not been by natural
progression.

The infestation in Hicksville was traced to a tool handle factory that
used logs made from ash trees in Michigan. The borer in Columbus came
from planted trees purchased from a Michigan nursery.

The biggest danger appears to be people transporting firewood or logs
from infested areas.

"All it takes is one person that goes up there in Michigan or northern
Ohio in an infested area and brings home a pickup truck of firewood and
it's here. That's all it's going to take," Fredrich said.

There already has been an economic impact to a variety of Ohio
industries.

Ohio nurseries sold $2.3 million worth of ash wholesale in 1998 and
that
market has all but disappeared.

Scarff said the glut of trees on the market will drive down the price.
He doesn't plan on putting more money into the stock of approximately
4,000 trees at his nursery.

"We will fertilize them to an extent and take care of them and try to
sell them, but if we don't, often the cheapest thing to do is go
through
them with a chain saw and chip them," he said.

Wood from ash trees is used in tool handles, flooring veneers and
baseball bats, among other uses.

Herms has read of people who had to refinance their homes to pay for
tree removal. Municipalities could face costs for tree removal.

Ash is said to be the most common tree in urban forests. Herms said
there could be an impact on forest ecosystems if the insect isn't
contained.

Consider him cautiously optimistic that it can be stopped.

"The eradication plan is a good one and I think it can work. It is
going
to take a lot of money and political will. If it is not eradicated, the
economic impact will be devastating," he said.
 
Originally posted by Dan F
How come I'm the only one posting articles? Is no one else reading any anywhere else?
Hang in there Dan, and keep posting. Other AS guys in the EAB area may be busy deciding what kind of chip truck to buy.

Have you thought of posting on the ISA PHC forum?
 
No, haven't thought about posting there... Probably won't either. I hardly have time to keep up on things here plus over on Lawnsite... I'm registered on Tr**buzz, but haven't even been on that site in a couple of months.

If we get a job we are in the process of bidding on right now, all I may be able to do for about 3-4 months is post on this thread specifically and that's it!:eek:


Dan
 
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