Echo 305/306 and Stihl MS180CBE

[Cord Cutter]

I am new to the forum. I am looking at buying a new saw. I cut mostly truck loads of firewood that comes by the truck load and has to be cut to our certain sizes. Some also has to be split. I am lookign to replace my 14" saw I have now. (It is a Poulan). I wondered if anyone has these saws and if you like them or not. The Echo seems lighter to me. The cost is $199.99 and for $45.00 you get a case, quart of Echo bar oil, and a spare chain. The Stihl Ms180CBE seems a little heavier (about a pound or two), and is $229.00. For $30.00 you get the case and all itmes chains, files, etc is 50% off when you buy with the saw. I wondered about the starting of these saws. The Echo has the bulb primer, the Stihl has the quick adjust and the E-Z start. I wondered also about the fuel cap and the oil cap if they leaked at all or not. The Echo has good gripping caps with rubber seals on them. The Stihl seems like regular round type caps. Please let me know what you know about these saws and if there are anythings I should look out for. I am staying with Stihl and Echo as they both would be from Servicing dealers close to me. A Husky dealer is a lot further away from me. I am also looking for this saw to sometimes be used by my wife if need be and that is another reason for me picking these two. Also the consumer reports gave these good ratings. Thank You for your help. Cord Cutter.

 

[ericjeeper]

what part of Indiana?

Maybe we can locate you a dealer of a better saw than a pullon.Stihl is a good saw.. just not sure why you are looking at homeowner ,infrequent usetype saws?

 

[Cord Cutter]

I am looking at homeowner because I do not need a bigger more durable saw. I cut up our firewood at home so I really do not need a pro saw. Years ago we used to heat strickly by wood when we lived in Pa, but now we just use to to suplement our heat. Thbaks for the reply though. I really am just looking at the lower end saws. Cord Cutter.

 

[ericjeeper]

are you close to Indy?

there is an 026 pro at a pawnshop for 200. nice looking saw. Has more years of life left in it over a 180 imho

 

[Cord Cutter]

I have also seen the MS210 CBE for $299.00. Not quite sure about htis one either. I am thinking to lean torwards smaller saw. Is there somthing I should re-think?? I want this purchase to be one that will last me at least 10 years. Thanks for the input. Cord Cutter

 

[timberrat]

saw ?????

stihl pro grade saws are your best buy:biggrinbounce2: . do not buy echo they suck to work on:hmm3grin2orange: the tail handle pro arborist stihl is a good saw for the money:rockn:

 

[bytehoven]

Could you go into a little more detail regarding what type of cutting you have to do on the wood you receive?

Are you bucking longer logs to finished length for splitting?

What range of thicknesses are you cutting?

If you are resizing 18-24" split firewood to smaller lengths, then you could probably get by with a smaller saw, and the lighter weight would also be a bonus.

If you are bucking stuff over 8", then you might appreciate the extra cutting power of a 50cc range saw like a Husky 353.

If you are bucking stuff upward of 15-20"+ thick, then you will appreciate the power of an even bigger saw. For this kind of work, I use a Stihl MS361, but I'm sure I could get by with a MS290/310/390, a Husky 359 or Dolmar 5100S.

I run a Stihl MS192T (30cc) with a 12" and 14" bar, and with a good chain it has no trouble handling limbs up to 8"+. I recently cleaned up a fallen pear tree for a neighbor with the 192T, which had an almost 20" trunk section. I had about a dozen cuts on the trunk. I could have probably finished all of these cuts with my new MS361 in the time it took me to do one with the 192T.

If you can share a little more info on your cutting chores, I'm sure we will try to get you drain a little more cabbage from your wallet.

EDIT: Timberrat makes a good point. There is a rear handle version of the 192T coming out, and then there is the big brother MS200 which is a very nice saw in the $500+ range. If your budget had some room and you weren't trying to cut big stuff all day long, the MS200 would be pretty sweet. But then your in the price & weight range of the Husky 346xp.

Are you confused yet?

 

[vegaome]

I am new to the forum. I am looking at buying a new saw. I cut mostly truck loads of firewood that comes by the truck load and has to be cut to our certain sizes. Some also has to be split. I am lookign to replace my 14" saw I have now. (It is a Poulan). I wondered if anyone has these saws and if you like them or not. The Echo seems lighter to me. The cost is $199.99 and for $45.00 you get a case, quart of Echo bar oil, and a spare chain. The Stihl Ms180CBE seems a little heavier (about a pound or two), and is $229.00. For $30.00 you get the case and all itmes chains, files, etc is 50% off when you buy with the saw. I wondered about the starting of these saws. The Echo has the bulb primer, the Stihl has the quick adjust and the E-Z start. I wondered also about the fuel cap and the oil cap if they leaked at all or not. The Echo has good gripping caps with rubber seals on them. The Stihl seems like regular round type caps. Please let me know what you know about these saws and if there are anythings I should look out for. I am staying with Stihl and Echo as they both would be from Servicing dealers close to me. A Husky dealer is a lot further away from me. I am also looking for this saw to sometimes be used by my wife if need be and that is another reason for me picking these two. Also the consumer reports gave these good ratings. Thank You for your help. Cord Cutter.

Howdy Cord Cutter,

If you want a saw that will last ten or more years any of them could do that if you maintain them good and keep them sharp. I know guys that have some 025s that have been around a while. I cut mostly with a burnt up echo 510 and I love that saw. It can take a beatting/abuse for sure, tough saw.

I heat totally with wood and I have cut 17 full size truck loads this year so far. I would not cut with a small saw it just takes to long. My back aint to good so I go for a bigger saw and a longer bar. Cut for 30 minuets to an hour. If I used a small saw you can double or tripple the time maybe and you will be bent over longer. I just dont want to mess around all day to cut two or three loads, to me its worth the couple hundred extra you might pay for a bigger/better saw.

I would not be afraid to get an echo or a stihl. Both good saws I think. Figure out what size wood your cutting and buy the appropriate size or one size bigger saw. My back thanks me for getting bigger saws. For just having one saw to do it all the models you mention seem a little small, go up a couple sizes or three. Buy a used one if you have a price cap. Just dont buy junk and don't get one to small.

good luck

v/r

Mike

 

[Log Splitter]

Cord Cutter,

I replaced a Poulan 1950 with a Stihl MS180 and could not be happier with the saw. I would not argue that a pro saw like the MS200 would be better, but for my purposes the MS180 is working out fine. I would advise against the E-Z start feature, it's just a gimmick IMO. You can't get away from the quick adjust chain feature on the 180, which I don't particularly like either, but I can live with that.

Let us know which saw you decide to buy.

 

[computeruser]

Welcome to arboristsite, CordCutter. The other guys have covered the issue pretty well, but I'll toss my two cents in, too.

The MS180 and CS3xx saws are both good, solid little machines for the homeowner/landowner. Used in their intended roles, they will last you a long time and give you good service. By the way, the fact that Consumer Reports happens to like them would not, in my mind, count for much. The criteria that they use for testing have little bearing on how a saw will perform in the long run or in real-world use.

Have you considered an Echo CS346, the larger-displacement 34cc sibling of the CS305/306? You can get the CS346 new in box on eBay for about $185 shipped. I have run the 30cc and 34cc Echos side-by-side and the increase in displacement translates into a noticeably better cutting experience. The little Echos also have an edge in that they are lighter than the Stihl MS170/180. If you want a durable small saw, my vote goes for the Echo.

Skip the MS210 - it is bigger, heavier, more expensive, and doesn't really out cut the MS180 by a large enough margin to be worth the size/price/weight tradeoff. The next logical step from the MS180 would be the MS250. Don't even waste your time looking at the MS210/230.

I would also skip, to the fullest extent possible, any "features" that purport to make the saw easier to use. EasyStart, easy chain tensioning, "features" like that are just gimicky stuff that is bound to break or make the otherwise extremely simple process of starting and maintaining a saw more difficult than it needs to be.

And if you're truly in the market for a $299 saw, there are MUCH better choices out there for that money - Husqvarna 350, Stihl MS250 (which should cost about $300), or Dolmar 401/460, being the prime examples. With the exception of the Dolmar 401, these are larger saws (10-12lb) that are markedly more capable than any MS180 or Echo CS3xx out there; the Dolmar 401 is a $250 pro-grade, magnesium-cased 40cc saw that weighs less than 9lbs.

 

[Cord Cutter]

WOW!!! Thanks for the suggestions. Log Spliter, You have the MS 180 without easy start??? How does that do for you??? How many pulls does it take to fire off when cold??/ Do you have any problems with the fuel cap and/or oil caps not being tight enough to not leak or drip???? If the starting is not too bad and the easy start is just a gimmick, I wonder if the MS170 would be better.
Computer user, I have thought about the 346 Echo, but many I have read do not like the side tension thing. I thought about buying on internet but I feel safer with a service department behind the saw just in case. I get wood by the trauck load and I usually have to cut quite a bit. Most of the stuff is split and about 24" to 30" long. I use mainly 10" to 13" pieces of wood that burn good. I hope this gives you a better idea of what I am looking for. In Pa when I used to burn wood all the time I had a Homelite Super 2 with 16" bar. I think it was like 33CC or 31 cc. I used that puppy HARD!!!! I do not like the new homelites as I tried one from Home Depot. It was a Ranger 16". I tried it 2 days and the saw started dying when it was on one side to cut down a tree. I turned off the switch and opened the fuel tank. What I found was the gas mix has apparently eaten away at the black plastic inside the tank. The fuel strainer was stuck to the bottom on one side of the tank and a small piece of the tank (I call this a rib) was floating inside. I took it back to Home Depot and they allowed me to give it back and I got a refund. I will never buy another saw with the same black plastic type of tank. McCuollugh and Homelite are the only ones I have seen with this. I feel I got lucky with Home Depot letting me give the saw back and that is why I feel safer with a service center backing my new saw. Are the Echos junk??? What is it about the tail piece or working on them that is rough?? Please let me know. Thanks for all your advice. Cord Cutter

 

[Log Splitter]

WOW!!! Thanks for the suggestions. Log Spliter, You have the MS 180 without easy start??? How does that do for you??? How many pulls does it take to fire off when cold??/ Do you have any problems with the fuel cap and/or oil caps not being tight enough to not leak or drip???? If the starting is not too bad and the easy start is just a gimmick, I wonder if the MS170 would be better.
Cord Cutter

My MS180 pops on about the 3rd or 4th pull when cold, then starts on the next one at 1/2 choke. After that, it usually starts on the first pull (at idle, btw). You are already used to pulling a 2 cycle over, I doubt the easy start feature would be something you will need. Spend the difference on a spare chain and some files or to help pay for some PPE.

I've had no problems with the caps leaking fuel or bar oil. I've not run a MS170, but it has a smaller engine and about 10% less power than the MS180. Since you plan to use your saw as your primary work saw, the additional power on the MS180 would be a plus.

You might want to do a search here on the MS 180. For the most part, people here like them.

 

[Cord Cutter]

Log Splitter, Are you having much trouble with the quick adjuster?? I have seen it in the store and tried it on a display model but I wondered how it works in real life cutting. Is it hard to get used too? Does it hold real good or does it only hold the chian and bar just enough?? Is there much tweaking on it?? Yes hearing about the 180 without the easy start is really helpful. That many pulls is no problem for me. Thanks for all your input. How does your chain hold up for you??? Is there anything else you can tell me about your saw that you like or don't like?? Thanks, Cord Cutter

Also how is the anti vibration stuff on the 180?? I was not sure how ggod the anti vibration stuff is on the saw in real life. Thanks.

 

[jab6]

echo

Howdy Cord Cutter,

If you want a saw that will last ten or more years any of them could do that if you maintain them good and keep them sharp. I know guys that have some 025s that have been around a while. I cut mostly with a burnt up echo 510 and I love that saw. It can take a beatting/abuse for sure, tough saw.

I heat totally with wood and I have cut 17 full size truck loads this year so far. I would not cut with a small saw it just takes to long. My back aint to good so I go for a bigger saw and a longer bar. Cut for 30 minuets to an hour. If I used a small saw you can double or tripple the time maybe and you will be bent over longer. I just dont want to mess around all day to cut two or three loads, to me its worth the couple hundred extra you might pay for a bigger/better saw.

I would not be afraid to get an echo or a stihl. Both good saws I think. Figure out what size wood your cutting and buy the appropriate size or one size bigger saw. My back thanks me for getting bigger saws. For just having one saw to do it all the models you mention seem a little small, go up a couple sizes or three. Buy a used one if you have a price cap. Just dont buy junk and don't get one to small.

good luck

v/r

Mike

i have been useing the same echo for bout 7 years now 20" bar i blow it out with the air compresser every other time i go out keeps the insulation off the moter lets it run a little cooler...been a hell of a good saw....id buy another...never had to ajust anything...i think if some guys could just keep thier screwdrivers out of thier saw they would have better luck.....

 

[Log Splitter]

The quick adjuster on the Stihls, unlike the design on some other models, holds the bar in place just fine. For me, since I keep a scrench in the pocket of my chaps for my other saws, it's just not necessary. The negatives are the fact it's something else to keep clean, it's a bit touchier (IMO) to get perfect chain adjustment with, and it makes replacing the chain a bit tougher. However, like you I was used to the outboard clutch on my old Poulans. The inboard clutch on the Stihls more than makes up for the PITA factor replacing chains that is caused by the quick adjust.

Speaking of chains, there really is a difference in Stihl chain. I was used to frequent chain adjustments when running new chain on my old saws. Stihl chains are prestretched, so you don't find yourself adjusting all that much anyway.

Vibration is not a problem at all with the MS 180. It's a sweet running little saw, and the narrow kerf chain they put on it makes it smooth in the cut. I cut a lot of hickory, so if vibe was a problem I'd know it.

The carb is preset, you can only adjust the idle speed. Maybe that is an advantage for us occasional saw users.

It sounds like you need to go back to your dealer and get him to let you run the MS 180 some.

 

[vegaome]

WOW!!! Thanks for the suggestions. Log Spliter, You have the MS 180 without easy start??? How does that do for you??? How many pulls does it take to fire off when cold??/ Do you have any problems with the fuel cap and/or oil caps not being tight enough to not leak or drip???? If the starting is not too bad and the easy start is just a gimmick, I wonder if the MS170 would be better.
Computer user, I have thought about the 346 Echo, but many I have read do not like the side tension thing. I thought about buying on internet but I feel safer with a service department behind the saw just in case. I get wood by the trauck load and I usually have to cut quite a bit. Most of the stuff is split and about 24" to 30" long. I use mainly 10" to 13" pieces of wood that burn good. I hope this gives you a better idea of what I am looking for. In Pa when I used to burn wood all the time I had a Homelite Super 2 with 16" bar. I think it was like 33CC or 31 cc. I used that puppy HARD!!!! I do not like the new homelites as I tried one from Home Depot. It was a Ranger 16". I tried it 2 days and the saw started dying when it was on one side to cut down a tree. I turned off the switch and opened the fuel tank. What I found was the gas mix has apparently eaten away at the black plastic inside the tank. The fuel strainer was stuck to the bottom on one side of the tank and a small piece of the tank (I call this a rib) was floating inside. I took it back to Home Depot and they allowed me to give it back and I got a refund. I will never buy another saw with the same black plastic type of tank. McCuollugh and Homelite are the only ones I have seen with this. I feel I got lucky with Home Depot letting me give the saw back and that is why I feel safer with a service center backing my new saw. Are the Echos junk??? What is it about the tail piece or working on them that is rough?? Please let me know. Thanks for all your advice. Cord Cutter

Howdy Again Cord Cutter,
I agree with what others have said about the kimicks that come on some new saws, can usually do without them I would buy from a local dealer if I was in your posiition. They can really help you, support them. Echo and Stihl both make good saws, I don't think you can go wrong with either. It doesn't sound like your cutting up butt logs but rather re-cutting split wood? If I read you right. Maybe that 180 is what you need. What ever you get maintain it well and it should last. Good luck.

Howdy jab6,

You could be right about that scredriver thing but you got to learn some how. Glad you like your 510. I have an 18" bar on my main one and 20" on the others. I like the balance with the 18" better, very comfortable for me.

Good night all

v/r
Mike

 

[upandcommer]

I bought the wife an 018c at the local stihl dealer it was his personal carving saw. Great antivibe great power with a mini roller .43 guage and 14" chain sharp no complaints the best saw for limbing on the face of the earth. Without the quick adjust it would be a great saw (I am notto fond of the quick adjust but that is personal) so go buy the 180 forget all the lettered gimicks that come after and grab a stock ms180 no c b or q and you will like it alot better.

 

[bytehoven]

Cord Cutter: One last thing to consider before you make a purchase.

What is your time worth? One advantage of a bigger saw, so long as weight is not an issue, you can trim up more logs at a time.

I do the same thing you do. I prefer to use 12" length wood in my fireplace, and when I have larger pre-cut firewod, I cut it down.

Where as the 30cc saw can handle one piece of firewood at a time, the large saw can cut down a stack of logs in one pass.

I mention this because you said you're dealing with truck loads of wood.

Certainly you could get a 180 and then something bigger down the road if needed.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[maccall]

Cord Cutter,

I have a 250 C-BE since two years, and two of the main reasons I bought it was the QCA (Quick Chain Adjuster), and the E2S (Easy2Start). I really thought they were the chain saw equivalents to sliced bread and I bought the largest saw that had booth of these. :biggrinbounce2:

Booth these features works exellent, there's no problem with them, but today I wouldn't buy the same saw again, and the reason is simple: I would have more use for the lesser weight and the saved bucks on the model without them. They're not bad, not at all, I just feel I don't need them as much as lower weight and lower cost.

About the Easy2Start: It usually takes 2 pulls to tension the spring enough so that it tries to start the saw. So, if a standard saw without E2S would require 2 pulls to pop, and 1 more to start (when cold) that would mean 4 pulls to pop and 2 more to start with E2S, and this is how mine usually does. When warm there's just the 2 pulls.

It's easy as pie to use, but it takes twice the time to start it with E2S than without, since you have to pull twice as many times, and I'm actually regretting not getting the model with decomp valve and elastostart instead.

Another thing is that you have no way of release a built up tension in the spring other than to pull then rope again to have it make an attempt to start. This can be a little scary, 'cause if you pull once it's usually not enough to get it started, but sometimes it's enough to rotate the engine once or twice, and sometimes that's all it takes to get it going.

Imagine pulling it once, then remember you need to go and get your ppe or whatever, then the saw might actually decide to start on it's own when you leave it, unless you have shut it off with the switch. And if at the same time you forgot to apply the chain brake, who knows what the saw will be cutting in to all by itself when you get back to it.

Or imagine how easy it would be to pull once, and then notice "Hey, that chain needs to be adjusted, lucky enough I do have my QCA!" and as you hold the bar up with your one hand and adjusting the chain with the other, the saw decides that it has enough tension in the spring to make an attempt to start... :censored:

The 250 isn't avalable where I live without the QCA, and it doesn't add that much to either weight or cost, but still, given a choice today I wouldn't have spent any extra money on it.

And as already been pointed out, don't go with the 210 or 230, they weight as much as the 250 but with lesser power, so pick either the 180 or the 250.

 

[Erick]

Excellent post mccall

I had heard the same thing from someone else about the E2S turning over on its own. The man I talked to told me that he had sat his saw on the tailgate of his truck and went to clear some logs from where he was cutting. He said next thing he knew the saw had started its self, and managed to vibrate off the tailgate before he could get to it. Man said he had always been in the habit of turning the start lever back to the on position when he shut his saws down, said he learned real quick not do that with that saw.

I could easily see someone getting hurt if that spring released while you were adjusting the chain (like mccall) or maybe a quick touch-up with the ole file. I wouldn't get it, seams like a real safety issue. I don’t really see the need for it on that size saw anyway, it’s really not any harder to pull than a weed eater. Most any saw that receives proper maintenance should start within 5 pulls (usually 3 or 4) when cold and usually 1 when warmed up. Pulling twice on a warm saw doesn't sound "easy to start" to me. Spend the money on a good helmet with a face screen you'll be a lot happier and safer.

By the way excellent choice on the MS180 nice little saw, should serve you well for many years to come.