Echo CS-590

[Cliff R]

Just picked up an Echo CS-590. For sure the CS-590 is a lot of saw for the money, with some nice features. With the coverage the CS-590 was getting on the last thread that ran about it, I just decided to get one and find out for myself what's up with them?

Before placing it in service I removed the limiter caps and checked the settings on the "L" and "H" screws. The "L" was at 1 1/4 turns and the "H" was at 1/4 turn. This saw is really easy to work on, and it took less than 2 minutes to remove the carburetors and pull the limiter caps.

I put the caps back in place along with the smaller support bracket around them and returned the mixture screws to the stock settings.

Echo supplies their 2 cycle oil with the saw, so I mixed it with some fresh 93 octane pump gas (10 percent ethanol) at a mix ratio of apprx 40 to 1. It took about half a dozen pulls and the saw fired right up, but shut of INSTANTLY if the choke were pushed in all the way.

I played around with the choke and gave it some warm up time. The entire time the saw was warming up any quick hits of the throttle resulted in a noticeable hesitation/stumble. The warmer the engine got the less noticeable this was, and when fully warmed up it turned into more of a very slight "bog, but no indication of shutting down for any reason.

I knew the mixtures screws were pretty lean, but I resisted the temptation to fine tune them, mostly because of the load of CRAP I received about my comments on these saws on the last thread about them. Anyhow, nuff said about that, we need to move forward instead.

Despite my gut feeling that the saw was set too lean, and the fact that it revved too high for my liking without "four stroking", a few cuts were made in some dry hard Maple that's been down about a year and half. It made the cuts fine, but coming out of the cuts to no load it acted lean, and the very slightly "bog" continued if you hit the throttle very quickly. After half a dozen cuts I had enough and fine tuned the "L" speed screw. It really wasn't off much, ended up 1 1/4 turns plus about one more screwdriver blade thickness CCW (rich).

I started adjusting the "H" speed screw about 1/16 turn at a time CCW and it really didn't act much different in the cut for the first few movements. At times if I removed the load some instead of "four stroking" it would free rev, then "catch" like it had a rev limiter. If it does have a limiter it's set pretty high, not annoying low like the one on my CS-360T. I just kept richening up the "H" speed screw until it sounded perfect, very slight four stroking when the load was removed. This took about half a dozen adjustments while making 3-4 cuts at each setting. I felt that I had found the saws "sweet spot", so didn't go any richer with the "H" screw and continued cutting until I ran out of logs at that location.

Some friends of mine showed up to hunt coyotes just as I was finishing so I quit for the day.

So, first impressions of this saw are very positive. It has PLENTY of power for the CC's and very well suited to a 20" bar. The power curve is smooth, and vibration is hardly noticed. This is a high revving saw, unlike some of the other larger Echo saws I've tested, and it doesn't act like the muffler is restrictive. A final check of the "H" speed screw showed it to be 1/2" turn plus about one more screwdriver blade thickness CCW. Quite a ways from the 1/4 setting it had right out of the box.

I hate to judge or estimate power without direct testing, but this saw certainly is no slouch, it left me feeling that I really got my moneys worth in the power to weight department. At this time I'm not even looking at doing a muffler mod on it. The saw isn't overly loud, nor does it act like it needs the muffler opened up to get it to be a good runner. For the time being I'll leave the muffler alone and put some more time on it, the do some timed cuts and compare it to my Husqvarna 262XP.

As far as running one of these saws right out of the box within the limits of the factory carb adjustments, it probably would have been OK, but it certainly liked and responded very well to adding some fuel to it. A quick restart later after it cooled down showed no tendency whatsoever to stumble/hesitate while warming up, and no annoying "bog" after it was fully warmed up. It starts clean, takes the throttle nicely after a few seconds, and runs FLAWLESSLY everyplace.

I'll add to this thread if any new information develops, and after I make some timed cuts against the 262XP......Cliff

PS: added a few photos below, the saw tipped the scales dry at just over 15 pounds. My modified drywall screw removed the limited caps in seconds.

 

[JackJ]

Thanks Cliff. As the OP in that other thread that got acrimonious, I appreciate this first hand report with details on carb settings. I plan to buy my 590 next week, and will benefit from your experience.

One question: do you think the drywall screw is the best way to extract the limiters? Someone recommended a dental pick instead, so I ordered one to try that method.

 

[Cliff R]

The drywall screw works fantastic. Just remove the sharp tip so it can get a good start in the hole that's already in the center of the plastic caps. It turned it in and it actually pushed the limiter cap right off the screw, didn't even have to grab it with pliers to pull the caps off.....Cliff

 

[CR888]

The 590 reatail for $999 where l am, so it is definately aimed at market penetration in the US. If I was you guys in the US, I would grab em why you can at the sub $400 msrp. Even if they are not the 'saw of preference' or best in class they are quality units that perform well. Great back up saw for tree service guys that run primarily Husky/Stihl. Definately a well built pro saw, echoes of the past were reliable and well built but boring to run and lacked personality and pro power to wieght ratios. Don't make the mistake of judging them based on experience with old madels, Echo has come a long way since then and their new generation saws are totally different beasts, behaving more and more like european pro saws. This company will be around for many years to come so fear not buy a 590 with confidence. A note on carb needle position, without stating where you sit in relation to sea level, any discussion on the settings is borderline useless information. Congrats to the op for his new saw and write up.

 

[Cliff R]

I'm about 1100' elevation here, and the saw was certainly too lean for my liking, and responded very well to adding some fuel to it.

According to a response that was put on the last thread about the CS-590 that ran about removing limiter caps on these saws, it doesn't matter where you are, Echo set the carburetor accordingly. I thought that statement was a complete pile of CRAP, as no company can say where a saw is going to end up after it is sold, or what type/octane fuel it's going to get, etc. My saw came out of New Mexico, and I'm not even sure if that's where it was originally sold? So it ends up in Ohio, and like every other piece of Echo power equipment that I've worked on, acquired, or purchased on the last 20 years it now runs flawlessly with about 10 minutes of my time custom tuning it.

Anyhow, I ran the CS-590 some more today, and also took the muffler off the saw and inspected it, but didn't modify it in any way. For the time being it runs fine clear across the load/speed range, PLENTY of power for the cc's, and I want to do some time cutting testing it against some other saws that I have here.

I am also finding this saw very user friendly, good anti-vibe, smooth/broad/flat power curve, "lugs" good and plenty of rpm's in the cut. Doesn't stall easily against the clutch when you really "push" it, etc. Can't really say anything negative about it so far, stay tuned.......Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

Cliff
You should at least open up that pea sized hole in the muff deflector, the rest of the muff is not too clogged up. The last CS590 I got was at 1/4 turn out on the high also and lean, ended up almost 3/4 turn out with opening up the muff deflector. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

Thanks Steve. I came to the same conclusion after inspecting the muffler that it isn't overly restrictive. The deflector for sure causes a very sharp and narrow turn in the exhaust flow, so at some point I'll open it up by removing some of the material on the lower side so it isn't causing any restriction at that point.

I want to put some time on the saw first, so see what it's potential is in stock form. So far I'm very pleased with the engine, it has a very broad power curve and really LOVES to rev. Echo didn't kill it off with the coil either by having the rev-limiter come it too early, so good news there to anyone that buys one, you woln't have to spend another $80 or so on a coil to see max potential out of it in stock form.

Interesting that you also found the factory setting for the "H" screw set too lean for your liking. After all the nonsense thrown our direction in the last thread about the factory having all sorts of scientific test equipment to get these saws set correctly before shipping them out, I was starting to think that I've been wasting my time all these years custom tuning them.

Anyhow, I double checked the "H" speed screw setting yesterday and it's right at 5/8" turn out from seated, and the saw absolutely LOVES it! Instant cold starts, it doesn't stall the first time you flip the throttle to kick the choke off, no stumble/hesitation during warm-up, and that annoying "bog" is completely GONE!

I'd also add that when coming quickly out of the cut from full load that momentary lean condition is also gone. Some folks woln't know what that is, unless you do a lot of tuning, but absolutely and positively I would NOT recommend running one of these saws at the factory settings right out of the box. It's just too lean, and you're likely to toast the P/C unless you throw some fuel at it......IMHO......Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

Those that are against tuning a new saw are crazy, I see far too many new saws out on sawmill jobs that don't start good even after warm and wont throttle up for a couple of minutes after starting mostly Stihls and Huskys, those saws need to get tuned. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

Steve, I completely agree, but you've still got to keep in mind that a high percentage of the consumer base wouldn't know where the adjustment screws are even at, or what to do with them once they found them. Then you've got the argument from some that removing the caps are voiding the warranty, and for the Echo products it's 5 year consumer, so this may be important to many of the folks that own them.

I know for a fact that the warranty isn't going to be a player. The only issue I've had with any of my Echo power equipment is having to put new fuel lines and a carb kit in my PB-200 leaf blower right a the ten year mark. All the rest of it still runs flawlessly, and all of it was custom tuned before I owned it an hour.......Cliff

 

[CR888]

At the end of the day if carbs did not require adjustment, they would all have fixed jets. Oil ratio, elevation and air density (humidity) are never constant therefore carbs must be adjustible. Whether this is done by a simple screw threaded needle, AT system (feedback) or fuel injection, it is a must if a 2T is to be run in an uncontrolled environment. Those that don't understand this, well they need to read up on 2T tuning or spend time running them before advising others. This is not a brand specific issue at all, its a physical fact. Actually husky and stihl have taken tuning out of the hands of operators by technical advance in AT/Mtronic/FI systems. These systems are constantly tuning but are not without their floors.

 

[Cliff R]

As it relates to you well written comments, from my direct experience, Echo 2 stroke products tend to be considerably "tighter" on fuel control than the others (big names). I've tuned a number of newer Husky and Stihl saws in recent years and found them to be very, very close for tune, and not needing nearly the fuel added to them across the load/speed range as Echo products.

Even with that said, they have all responded well to custom tuning. This simply comes from variables in fuel quality, octane, and DA as mentioned in your response.......Cliff

 

[BGE541]

Good saw, check out the Echo 2015 thread it has some good information on the Echo family of saws@!

 

[BGE541]

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/15-echo-cs620pw-information.278407/page-80

 

[7sleeper]

Interested in reading a review from an experienced user. Thanks!

7

 

[Cliff R]

Did some more cutting with the CS-590 this evening. The air was considerably colder than it was the other day when I ran it. It acted like it could use a little more fuel, so I started adding a little at a time, making a cut, adding some more until just a whisper of 4 stroking removing the load slightly in the cut. I was in dry Ash about 18" diameter, and the CS-590 never grumbled once no matter how hard I pushed it. The tree was actually still standing, leaning against another tree. Even cutting the stump off flat I bucked it in pretty hard and it pulled right thru without dropping out of the good power or stalling against the clutch, which had me raise an eyebrow for a moment.

So far I'm pretty impressed by this saw, in terms of rpms in the cut and cutting speed/power. The porting they did here is light years better than the two CS-670's and CS-6700 that I owned previously, and I spent a lot of time with those saws, but was never overly impressed with any of them.

After I found the ideal carb setting for todays session, I double checked it and it is exactly 3/4 turns out from seated. I'm also certain that it has a limited coil, but it's not part of the equation and Echo has it set well above the rpms this saw wants to run in, in and out of the cut. I've ran quite a few other saws with limited coils in recent years, and most come it way too soon for my liking, almost annoying at times.

Even with that said when the "porters" get hold of this model they probably be looking to put an unlimited coil on it as well.

I'd say it's well seated in at this point, and the compression release is a really good idea for start-ups.....IMHO............Cliff

 

[JackJ]

Just picked up a new CS-590 from my local OPE shop this morning. They started it in the shop, though in the back while I was being run up at the register. (I would have asked to go back with them if I knew that was what they were going to do, so I could at least hear the initial tune, and see if they changed anything.) Once I got it home I took out the limiters first thing. Unfortunately, I think I turned the screws a bit in getting them out, so I don't know if the settings matched Cliff's, above. But I put the H at 3/4 and the L at 1 1/2. It had been about 90 minutes since they ran it at the store, so I choked it and it caught on the second pull. First pull with the choke in and it fired right up.

Took a minute or so until it would accelerate smoothly, but top end sounded ok-- clearly 4 stroking, but not too much. I've got some experience with tuning 2 strokes, and think I can do ok getting the top end about right, but the low speed needle is always trickier for me--sometimes it obvious when it's too rich, but not always. It was nice and sunny, and since I didn't see much smoke in revving it up from idle, I think I'll richen the bottom a little to see what that does. Idle was a bit fast, too, since the clutch was catching, so maybe that's a sign that it's a bit lean on the low end? Or maybe just the the idle needs adjustment.

Didn't get a chance to put it to wood today--had to go work. But it will certainly be put to use this weekend. Can't wait!

Jack

 

[Cliff R]

I can say for certain that you woln't be disappointed in it. Just came in from running mine for the last hour or so. I'm fine with the 3/4 turn setting for the "H" speed screw. Once fully warmed up there is just the slightest hint of 4-stroking when you remove the load coming out of a heavy cut. It 4-strokes nicely light to part throttle cutting smaller limbs. Going to leave it as-is for now, and reserve the muffler deflector modification for later after I do some further testing with it......Cliff

 

[CR888]

All Brands make good and bad models and no make has an 'all good' range of saws/ope. The key is to stay away from the 'bad' models and fill you shed with 'good' saws. The 590 is a good saw, simple as that.

 

[Idahonative]

The drywall screw works fantastic. Just remove the sharp tip so it can get a good start in the hole that's already in the center of the plastic caps. It turned it in and it actually pushed the limiter cap right off the screw, didn't even have to grab it with pliers to pull the caps off.....Cliff

The drywall screw works good if you don't mind boogering up the flathead slot. I like taking the metal retainer out with the dental pick better.

 

[mountainlake]

Just picked up a new CS-590 from my local OPE shop this morning. They started it in the shop, though in the back while I was being run up at the register. (I would have asked to go back with them if I knew that was what they were going to do, so I could at least hear the initial tune, and see if they changed anything.) Once I got it home I took out the limiters first thing. Unfortunately, I think I turned the screws a bit in getting them out, so I don't know if the settings matched Cliff's, above. But I put the H at 3/4 and the L at 1 1/2. It had been about 90 minutes since they ran it at the store, so I choked it and it caught on the second pull. First pull with the choke in and it fired right up.

Took a minute or so until it would accelerate smoothly, but top end sounded ok-- clearly 4 stroking, but not too much. I've got some experience with tuning 2 strokes, and think I can do ok getting the top end about right, but the low speed needle is always trickier for me--sometimes it obvious when it's too rich, but not always. It was nice and sunny, and since I didn't see much smoke in revving it up from idle, I think I'll richen the bottom a little to see what that does. Idle was a bit fast, too, since the clutch was catching, so maybe that's a sign that it's a bit lean on the low end? Or maybe just the the idle needs adjustment.

Didn't get a chance to put it to wood today--had to go work. But it will certainly be put to use this weekend. Can't wait!

Jack

Yes turn the low out until it accelerates good. The dealer should have done that so don't count on them. Steve