echo ppt 265 es pole saw long term review vs stihl pole saws ht 75

[imagineero]

Hi all,
I thought I'd kick off a long term review of the echo ppt 265-es, as sort of a standalone review, but also slightly vs the stihl ht75. I run a full time tree service and have gone through half a dozen ht75's over the years as well as using 101's and 131s. Yesterday I bought my first echo pole saw / pole pruner or whatever you want to call them. I think you guys stateside seem to get a few other models (280, 300) where as here in aus the 265 seems to be the only one available. Lets start off with the manufacturer specs;

Echo PPT 265 es
weight 7.9kg
length 372cm
engine 25.4cc
output 0.9kw

Stihl HT 75
weight 7.3kg
length 385cm
engine 25.4cc
output 0.95kw

Here in aus, the stihl retails for $1,379(!) and the echo for $999, but the stihl can be had for about $1250 and the echo for about $900. As with most things, you guys stateside get either for about half price or less. Either saw can also take a hedging attachment, which are priced about the same for either model at the $500~$600 mark here in aus.

For no reason I can understand, nobody has ever made a decent pole saw. On the surface it wouldnt appear to be all that difficult, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same level of competition in pole saws as there is in chainsaws.

So lets start off with the power heads.

They're both roughly the same displacement, and equally durable if you read around. Both manufacturers lose points in my mind, because the 'feet' the pole saw sits on are about 1/3 the width of the powerhead in both cases. What were they thinking? It would be like making a chainsaw and instead of leaving it with a flat base, making it round. Neither of these pole saws will lay flat for more than about 2 seconds, and when they do roll over, both leak fuel and oil. Why not make the base wider?

Moving onto the handles, the echo style is not everyones cup of tea but I don't mind it.

 

[imagineero]

Moving on to the crux of the matter we get to the poles. This is where stihl really falls down. They use the same pole on the HT75, 101 and 131, and it really is awful. It bends very easily, and has a bizzare arrangement of floating supports and springs internally, and an aluminum drive shaft. Even when new they don't extend nicely, and the springs are noisy. It doesn't take long for the internal supports to get a bit of dust in them, which stops them from sliding, then the drive shaft gets bent. After that, the saw wobbles, vibrates, or just wont run at full extension. The lack of trueness causes the saw to be very hard to spool up, and makes it bog down easily because it uses so much of the engines power just to keep it spinning. The 101 and 131 go a little better because they have more power, but that's kind of like upgrading your trucks engine from a 350 to a 454 because your handbrake is stuck on.

The stihl internal shaft is 25mm (1") while the echo is 35mm (1 1/2"). you might think that would make it 50% stiffer, but it's a whole lot more than that. It's at least twice as stiff. Put them both on the ground at full extension, and give each a shake, the stihl wobbles around like wet spaghetti, bouncing 10 or more times. The echo bounces back immediately and stops. Cutting at full extension, the stihl flexes noticeably a lot more than the echo does. The echo also has a steel drive shaft vs the stihls aluminum one.

Echo is the clear winner in the pole area, which counts for a lot. Every stihl pole saw I've ever owned has died from shaft problems, and the shaft costs more than half the replacement cost of the entire saw. Because of it's much stiffer pole, the echo requires less power both in terms of getting going, and keeping on going. That means it spools up fast, and it isn't giving up half its engine power just to fight its own shaft losses. The smaller engine on the echo gets more done, more quickly than the stihls do. It's also quieter and smoother to operate which is a pleasure.

 

[imagineero]

Which brings us to the saw heads, which are both awful for different reasons.

Echo has continued their 'go large' theme by using a long and bit attachment to the pole section, good for them. They also have a double keying system to keep the saw head in line. It consists of a spline on either side of the shaft, and a screw that goes into a hole in the shaft. This is a very good thing!

Unfortunately echo drops the ball by being ridiculous in their approach to fasteners. To do something simple, like tension the chain, or swap between the pole saw head and the hedging head, you need a T20 torx driver, a flathead screwdriver, a phillips head screw driver, a 5mm allen key, and a 10mm socket. I'm not kidding. Did they just pickup random bolts off the ground and put them any old place?

If you're from the stihl school of thought, you've suffered. There is no keyway on the stihl shaft or saw head, so the saw head is free to rotate. It can also just plain slide right off the end of the pole, or slide far enough out that the drive shaft doesnt engage it any more which sucks big time if you're half way through a cut and the saw head falls off. What are you going to do now? We've all been there. Getting the saw stuck/bound up with the head not engaging the pole is how most of the weak stihl poles get bent in the first place, and it really isn't that hard of a thing for stihl to design better. Listen up stihl! You suck! I hope you are reading this, and feeling the silent rage of every person who has ever bought one of your awful pole saws.

You may think that you could tighten up the retaining bolts on the head to make it not rotate, or fall off... but no. This casting cracked because of tightening the bolts up in a normal way. So now it needs an exhaust clamp to keep working. For shame, stihl. Stihl does win points over echo for using a sensible standard approach to their fasteners, so listen up here echo, husky etc... just one type of fastener will do nicely thank you! Stihl has that combination torx bit/wrench that does the lot, and the fasteners are the same as the ones on all the stihl saws. Simple and effective.

 

[bootboy]

I'm diggin it.

The echo PPT266 is $599 stateside.
The PPT280 is $659. Both can probably be had at a better price (-$50) from a reputable dealer.

I've been looking long and hard at the 280. It's good to know about the fasteners. I guess I could just go buy new matching hardware for just a few bucks at the local nut and bolt supply. Sounds like the echo is the clear winner in all other categories.

Thanks for the review

 

[imagineero]

As we get closer to the bar, things continue along much the same lines

The echo saw head looks like something you'd find on a cheap chinese import. They've priced themselves well into the commercial end of the market, and did a good job on their powerhead and pole, why did they let things go with the saw head? The whole look of the thing is cheap. The oil reservoir and cap look flimsy, the bar cover is awful, and the fasteners very sub grade. If the saw is intended to last a long time, it will need fasteners which also last a long time. The stihl unit looks much more the part, unless you hate flippy caps.

One area that echo got right, is the chain and bar. Both saws use the 3/8" lo pro, but stihl decided to go with safety chain in .043, while echo went with regular chain in .050. No guess on which cuts like mad. Because of the choice on gauge, you can use the very excellent carlton N1 on the echo saw, which is also great on your 200T.

The stihl head is very good on oil, because it doesn't use any. Well, that isn't strictly true... you'll need to top it up once every thousand tanks or so. This further hurts stihls approach of trying to push a square wheel up a hill, because the stihl saw with its narrow gauge and no oil adds to the woes caused by the awful shaft to even further reduce the power of the saw. Echo puts the exxon valdez to shame, putting out enough oil to get you in serious trouble with the EPA. That combined with its excellent shaft and sensible non safety chain leaves it well ahead of stihl because the engine has an easy time driving the whole combination.

Removing the bar cover on the echo requires a 10mm socket, and a flathead screwdriver. The tensioner is in the flimsy cover, and is known to get lost/come loose.

Stihl has gone with their standard 19mm nut, and one is just fine. The tensioner works well and will last a long time, but why so stingy on the oil? The only time it ever comes out is when the saw is in your truck

Puts the size of the fasteners into perspective. Echo 10mm nut shown next to the stihl item.

 

[imagineero]

One more jab at Echo about their awful fastener system. They've got a modular system where you can switch the saw head out for a hedging head, which is nice.... but why be so ridiculous about the fasteners? The saw head needs a 5mm allen key. The hedging head needs a T20 torx bit and a phillips head screw driver. The saw head cover needs a 10mm socket and a flathead screwdriver. Who is going to carry all these tools around with them? Even if you did, those T20 screws are not going to last long.

The echo hedging head looks just as good as the stihls, and is priced about the same. I don't own the stihl hedging head, I used to just rent it when I need it. They are similar in build quality, and both have full size grease nipples, and rotatable heads.

 

[imagineero]

Summing up the first impressions....

Who'd have thought that making a pole saw would be so tough? Can't someone just put a 200T on the end of a broom handle with a rotatable mount? Nobody has ever made a good pole saw. One that's light and rigid, has plenty of power, durable, a head that rotates so you can make proper cuts, and runs well.

Stihl could do it pretty easily. They need to upgrade their awful shaft system, and put an .050 bar on their saw with a high output oiler. Their engines, build quality, and systematic approach to design are already well developed.

Echo could get there pretty easily too. The PPT 265 isn't far short of being a commercial quality saw. The motor is well made, the shaft is great, and they made a sensible choice with the chain selection and oiler output (though don't be surprised if the EPA corrects them there!). They need to make a quality saw head to match the rest of the saw though, and add some $ to the sale price to cover that. They also need to put on their big boy shoes when it comes to fasteners - one size does fit all, please make it big. We don't need 10 different tools to lose, just the one, and could you make it the one that we already have please? Not another new one that we won't be able to get anywhere.

I'll update this review again in a month or so, then again in about 6 months.

Shaun

 

[struggle]

I have noticed with my HT131 the lack of oiling as you say. Mine doesn't even leak when in storage.

I wonder if running winter oil might help get a little more out

 

[nmurph]

I have had an HT 75 for about 4yrs. It seems to oil just fine, using about a tank/tank as you would expect. It is an older saw and they may have reduced the flow. I have used my a good bit in the woods gettting ready for deer season, but not as much as an arborist would. For me, and I would imagine for the average homeowner-hack, the 75 makes an excellent PS.

Shaun, how do they compare weight-wise? I have always thought the 75 was one of the lighter PS's around.

 

[XSKIER]

My HT KM 130 uses oil quicker than it uses fuel. The 4-MIX engine uses so little fuel, and a generous fuel tank capacity means that I have to keep an eye on the oil tank. My oil doesn't leak either. Maybe your HT 75 needs some maintenance? The chain on your HT 75 looks like it is done. Try a loop of Oregon 90S, the cutters are larger than stihl 61 PMMN, and it has no safety features. It will be interesting to see the comparison video of the Echo and Stihl.

[video=youtube_share;HzTlSF7B-ek]http://youtu.be/HzTlSF7B-ek[/video]

 

[imagineero]

They must be very close on weight as per the specs, though I've seen stihl claim 6.9kg on some websites and 7.3 on others. The echo is slightly heavier at a guess, but picking them up one by one you'd have a hard time picking it. I'll try to dig out my scales tomorrow and weight them both.

I think for occasional use, any pole saw would do, even the cheap chinese units. For semi regular home use the ht 75 is probably quite fine. Daily use is hard on equipment though, and pole saws have it especially hard. Because of their size, they tend to ride in the back of chip trucks, with the chip. It's dusty, and the guys tend to be none too careful with pole saws. They're such good money makers that most tree services cant help but keep replacing them. Would be nice if there was a longer lasting option. A lot of friends running tree companies have been leaving stihl for echo, and it prompted me to do the same. I think the echo is lower quality in some areas, but overall will probably last longer than the stihl because of the shaft design and the higher output oiler.

Shaun

 

[nmurph]

It's funny you mentioned the tipsy nature of the 75. My (9yr old) son commented this weekend that the "pole saw won't sit up!" I thought it was a keen insight. But even though it does seem to stand on it's head a lot, I haven't noticed more than a drip or two of oil or fuel. Maybe it's bc you guys are upside down to start with:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:.

 

[7sleeper]

As far as I know only the Efco pole saw PTX 2700 has a rotable head (0-90°) as standard.

PTX 2700 | efco Power

Thanks for the quick overview!

I tried out once one of the cheap chinese multi tools with pole saw attachment. It vibrated so much that the conections with the fixating hole slowly got bigger and bigger. Luckily I was able to return it.

I also have a Stihl kombi tool with pole saw attachment and have often wondered that it is actually a little strange that the saw only points in one direction. Stihl has a 45° angular gear that cost's a humongous amount for that part only. At least not worth it for me.

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[nmurph]

I forgot to mention that I have used a PP PS that my FIL has borrowed from a neighbor. We live a couple of hours apart and strapping my PS to the rooftop would look a little strange. The HT75 is several steps above the PP.

I have looked at the Efco several times. I like the idea of a tilting head. It seems like it would be a no-brainer, at least as an option, for all PS's.

 

[Giles]

THANKS---imagineero--for an excellent review:msp_smile:
I have a Stihl HT250 that is about four years old. One thing that I could add is that the design of all pole saws that I have operated are wrong for me:msp_angry:
Why not make a saw with a rear handle--with the engine between your hands, balance would be much better and reach would be longer
I have not had this saw for very long but I will look into adding a rear handle after I get the mess cleaned up in my yard and get the Chinese carburetor straightened out:bang:

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I have a older echo PPT 261 and love it. Wouldnt trade it for any other. Plus I like real 2 stroke motors over the 4 mix stuff.

I use the stihl 63PS3 chain which is much faster through the cuts. As much as 15% faster.

Plus you can buy 5' extension if needed.

PPT 261 12' 10" Dry Weight (lb)* 16.7 no bar chain

other older

PPF 225 7'9" Dry Weight (lb)* 13.9 no bar chain

PPT S 265 8' Dry Weight (lb)* 15.1

PPT 265 12' 2" Dry Weight (lb)* 17.4

 

[xxl]

the only reason i have aht 101 is becuase someone gave it to me Id rather have a Echo

 

[imagineero]

I can report that already the echo is not working out to be as good as I had hoped. This so called 'professional grade saw' didn't even stand up to getting run over by a 10 tonne truck today.

Its not that clear in the pic, but the truck didn't completely run over it, just rolled into it and pushed it into the ground. The carb snapped the casting on the cyllinder where it attaches, so it will be needing a new cyllinder. That's pretty much it. Will get a price from the dealer tomorrow. Anyone want a mint OEM echo cyllinder with only 0.5 hours run time from new? Missing the intake side of the casting ;-)

Shaun

 

[XSKIER]

Ok. So how did it PERFORM during those precious few minutes that it has been run?

 

[7sleeper]

Should be no problem welding it back on....

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