Edison Motors announces their pickup truck kit

[GenXer]

Where did Edison say they were reusing the old axles? The semis had them stripped out.

They are using new axles

 

[farmhard]

They are using new axles

I can't see these kits being under $50-60k

 

[sean donato]

Edison's current plan is to replace the existing engine with a 3.6L diesel genset.

If someone wants to keep their existing motor they certainly can, it'd be between them and the installer to figure out how to get their existing motor to power a generator. In my eyes, that negates a big part of the advantage of the swap, which is a lighter + more fuel efficient engine. An engine tuned to be optimally efficient at one RPM, as a generator can be, is quite a different animal from an engine with compromises made to have a usable powerband across a wide range of RPMs. Again, negating another advantage of the swap.

I also see people wanting to put an electric motor on their transfer case, keeping the xfer case, driveshafts, and factory axles. Seems like the worst of both worlds to me, all the pita of a swap while keeping the weight, maintenance, parasitic losses, and failure points of the normal drivetrain. When Edison pulled that tank on the trailer, one of the coolest parts of it to me was how the whole truck frame didn't twist when torque was applied, because all the power was coming from right on the axle. You'd lose that with the electric motor on the transfer case.

Edison Motors is talking about introducing axles with different gear ratios in the future, one that'll give more speed at the expense of reduced torque. I'd love to put something like that in a 67 Chevelle with a 4 cylinder diesel under the hood, and use it as my daily driver commuter.

They actually don't really differ much, if at all then a general use/varriable speed engine. Epa testing is way different, governing is a bit different, but as far as tuning to be optimized at 1500/1800/3000/3600 rpm, nope not in any diesel I've ever seen or worked on. Even less so with electronic controls, few map adjustments, and generally retain all the stand by and prime ratings as their full rpm Brothers. Possibly rated a bit lower/higher depending on the rpm spec.

 

[farmhard]

So in my ignorance, why wouldn't I just buy a smashed hybrid for 10k and put the drive units in a 2wd truck and have the same results?

 

[OM617YOTA]

So in my ignorance, why wouldn't I just buy a smashed hybrid for 10k and put the drive units in a 2wd truck and have the same results?

You'd be getting a modern hybrid, which is a completely different animal. Modern hybrid uses a complicated transmission to send a mix of engine + electric motor power to the wheels. If they have any pure electric operation capability, it's at very limited speed and for very limited range. Think 25mph tops and 10 miles range.

What Edison is working on is a pure electric truck, that also carries it's own diesel powered charger. 100% capability in EV only mode. If you can recharge it and have enough battery, you may not ever need the diesel powered charger, but it'll be there. If you never plug it in, you can still run 100% off diesel fuel, while still taking advantage of the 100% torque at 0 rpm of electric drive, and regenerative braking.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Yeah, it's been awhile since I saw an F350. I have an E350 here is why I said that.

I sure do. Dana 60 in the front and I did a full axle flip on it to make it a high portal, Thompson linear roller bearings in the front military wrap leaf springs, greaseable of course. Drop pittman arm, reinforced huck bolts in the steering box and a couple of extra leaves in each spring and out back a 10.5 Sterling 4.10 with a Detroit Tru Trak locker and the front has an ARB air locker. Rides like a lumber wagon empty but ride like a Coupe DeVille loaded. It's 6 over stock and stock was high. Being an old man, it's hard to get in and out of but then I built in back in 98 when I was still agile. I'm not now. never seen a Michigan winter either, always garaged and on storage insurance. Fully Banks kitted too and E4OD built by Fords SVO in Dearborn. Being the dirty old man I am, I love to drive it and look down in the cars and observe the young gals with their skirts hiked up... Straight 6" pipe on it too. The turbo makes such a sweet sound when spooled up. Everything works too. Cold AC, AM/FM casette (can you even buy them today?), tilt wheel, cloth interior, full gage package and I put air ride overloads on the back with an onboard compressor, sliding rear window, long bed, class 5 receiver, GN hitch in the bed too. Stainless bottoms, Alcoa wheels with 32 x 10.5 off road tires, it's a tank. Been offered 35 for it, I don't think I'll ever sell it. Got the rare 3 point Rec mirrors on it too. SVO dynoed it at 330 RWHP.

 

[farmhard]

You'd be getting a modern hybrid, Think 25mph tops and 10 miles range.

I get it in a logging truck. Makes total sense. I'm sitting on a barn full of vintage cars waiting to see if I will ever be able to drive them (not likely) before finishing the powertrains. One is a 1942 Chrysler Windsor 5 window coupe that I have a 360 beside it, changed my mind to FWD Intrepid 3.5 setup and now I'm thinking hybrid. I have some time on this one to line up the parts while doing the body.

Now, if I take my car / truck and go Edison, put in a genset, 10K worth of batteries that might last 10 years, add electric heat, steering, A/C, braking, figure out my springs so it sits straight....I mean pay an Edison installer.....60k
or
I can buy a gas welder $500-1000 and put the generator in (not the engine) an S10 with modified bell housing, fill my box with batteries with a 2 solar panels @ 200W and be full electric (I have 10KW solar on my roof) @ 10k
or
buy a smashed hybrid and do the same. @15-20k

My Neighbor's 2012 Yaris just had it's first break down, the small battery went @$500.

 

[GenXer]

 

[JRM]

Edison is doing what Toyota has known all along. BEV isn't going mainstream anytime soon. Toyota has stayed the course on hybrids while investing big in hydrogen fuel cell which makes so much more sense than BEV ever did. I've wondered for years why hybrids havent been pushed more. Cutting a vehicles fuel requirements by 1/3 is a no brainer. Then if Gov was really concerned about GHG emissions they could be doing more to promote the renewable diesel fuels which have been proven to cut NOX and PM by up to 75%. This is a mature technology that the large players (Mobil, Shell, Chevron, etc) all posses but will not invest in on a larger scale due to mandates being put in place to eliminate diesel, and eventually ICE all together. With up to 75% fewer emissions from the fuel alone the aftertreament requirements of a modern diesel suddenly get alot easier....and cheaper. There simply is no better alternative or more reliable power source to date.
The market appears to be slowly bucking the idiotic mandates being pushed forward. Hopefully Edison will help continue to pull the layers back on the onion.

 

[OM617YOTA]

There's no hydrogen fueling infrastructure. Might make sense for fleets who can set up their own fueling rigs, but the average person ain't doing that.

People complain that the power grid can't support EVs, but at least there is a power grid. There is no hydrogen grid.

 

[farmhard]

I had HHO generators installed on various cars. Wait till people start making hydrogen and blowing themselves up lol!!!

 

[JRM]

There's no hydrogen fueling infrastructure. Might make sense for fleets who can set up their own fueling rigs, but the average person ain't doing that.

People complain that the power grid can't support EVs, but at least there is a power grid. There is no hydrogen grid.

And yet it still makes more sense than the fallacy of building and relying on batteries that use unobtanium amounts of precious metals as a long term solution, and placing added strain on an aging infrastructure that can barely handle wide swings in weather. You can transport hydrogen similar to gasoline/diesel, with added safety measures. Same with fueling stations.
Cummins, Cat, Detroit, and Toyota have made big strides in safe reliable fuel cells. Notice the underwhelming committiment from all of the above RE BEV tech. Theyve dipped their toes in the water but not much more.
Stationary hydrogen power plants are in place and performing well. Next step mobile units. There are added safety concerns there, obviously. IMO this is the way it should be, the market is maturing the technology that makes sense. BEV isn't it, and never will be. Hybrid systems make the most sense economically, but like it or not internal combustion engines days are numbered.

 

[OM617YOTA]

And yet it still makes more sense than the fallacy of building and relying on batteries that use unobtanium amounts of precious metals as a long term solution, and placing added strain on an aging infrastructure that can barely handle wide swings in weather. You can transport hydrogen similar to gasoline/diesel, with added safety measures. Same with fueling stations.
Cummins, Cat, Detroit, and Toyota have made big strides in safe reliable fuel cells. Stationary power plants are in place and performing well. Next step mobile units. There are added safety concerns there, obviously.

I disagree with most of your post and think you've grossly mis-stated several things, and at the same time I think hydrogen should absolutely still be pursued.

Hydrogen is far more difficult to transport and store than liquid fuels. We've no shortage of the materials needed for batteries - they're not easy to get, but hardly unobtanium. New tech is being worked on all the time to use more easily available materials, and battery recycling is ramping up to make use of the materials from batteries as they come out of service.

IMO this is the way it should be, the market is maturing the technology that makes sense.

I agree, let the market decide.

BEV isn't it, and never will be.

This is the part I disagree with the most strongly. The people who bought the 10.5 million BEVs in 2022 think they make sense right now. Doubtless someone said the internal combustion engine would never make sense when horses and steam power were still the mainstays.

There isn't going to be any one size fits all silver bullet solution to mechanized transport. We should be pursuing all the options, and like you say, let the market figure it out. Pure BEV for the people it works for, pure ICE for the people it works for, hydrogen for the people that works for. Propane, CNG, hybrid, pedal cart, sail car, bicycles, shoeleather express, all of it.

JCB has been working on hydrogen combustion engines for their equipment, after they instrumented some of their equipment and found out that some markets put 7000 hours on a machine in a single year - there are only 8760 hours in a year. Just zero time to recharge. Going from memory there, the exact numbers might be wrong, but the idea was the same, zero time to recharge. Hydrogen combustion engine fits the same form factor as gasoline or diesel engine, refills in the same amount of time as liquid fuel, and hydrogen can be generated with any kind of power source, from renewables to nuke. Bring it on.

 

[JRM]

I disagree with most of your post and think you've grossly mis-stated several things,

What have I grossly mistated?
Granted much of what I wrote us opinion but reflects the direction heavy equipment manufacturers are investing in, not necessarily what is in the news day to day. They feel BEV isn't the answer and with a few exceptions it will not be the mainstream answer for the US.

This is the part I disagree with the most strongly. The people who bought the 10.5 million BEVs in 2022 think they make sense right now.

You do realize 2023 BEV sales growth dropped by 50% as of this summer? Not sure where they will end up but the key is, sales are slowing in a period where everyone predicted 90%+ growth over last year. Missed it by a mile. Ford alone scaled back current production by 50% and put a hold on $12 billion in investments toward future EV manufacturing. Lots of first time buyers are trying them out and taking advantage of big rebates that don't exist for anything else. Take the rebates away, and understand that alot of people have went back to ICE after being a 1st time BEV owner due to bad experiences, and the picture starts becoming more clear. The next few years will likely be a reliable forecast for the future of BEV. As of now it's barely a novelty for upper middle class or Johhny Paycheck that lives at home.

 

[farmhard]

There's no reason to transport hydrogem. There is a hydrogen separator in EVERY car and truck already in the form of a battery. Hydrogen can be made on demand at a charging station unlike propane and petroleum

 

[JRM]

Hydrogen can be made on demand at a charging station unlike propane and petroleum

Exactly. This is already being demonstrated by a few companies, but not mainstream yet.

 

[SS396driver]

Well it looks like Biden is hedging his bets.
https://www.energy.gov/articles/bid...on-americas-first-clean-hydrogen-hubs-driving

 

[OM617YOTA]

What have I grossly mistated?
Granted much of what I wrote us opinion but reflects the direction heavy equipment manufacturers are investing in, not necessarily what is in the news day to day. They feel BEV isn't the answer and with a few exceptions it will not be the mainstream answer for the US.


You do realize 2023 BEV sales growth dropped by 50% as of this summer? Not sure where they will end up but the key is, sales are slowing in a period where everyone predicted 90%+ growth over last year. Missed it by a mile. Ford alone scaled back current production by 50% and put a hold on $12 billion in investments toward future EV manufacturing. Lots of first time buyers are trying them out and taking advantage of big rebates that don't exist for anything else. Take the rebates away, and understand that alot of people have went back to ICE after being a 1st time BEV owner due to bad experiences, and the picture starts becoming more clear. The next few years will likely be a reliable forecast for the future of BEV. As of now it's barely a novelty for upper middle class or Johhny Paycheck that lives at home.

That doesn't match what I've seen, which says global EV numbers in 2023 are up between 25% and 45% from 2022, depending on where you look. I guess if the projection was a 90% growth, then yes that projection was missed.

There's no reason to transport hydrogem. There is a hydrogen separator in EVERY car and truck already in the form of a battery. Hydrogen can be made on demand at a charging station unlike propane and petroleum

So the grid doesn't have enough capacity to support charging BEVs, but that same grid will support creating hydrogen on site, and using that to power the same vehicles, despite the reduced efficiency of going the hydrogen route compared to charging a battery?

 

[SS396driver]

Where fuel is 8 to 9 dollars a gallon I would assume EV sales are increasing . We just had a 16% electricity increase .

 

[JRM]

That doesn't match what I've seen, which says global EV numbers in 2023 are up between 25% and 45% from 2022, depending on where you look. I guess if the projection was a 90% growth, then yes that projection was missed.

Right. Projected sales were missed by a wide margin. They still increased in numbers year over year but not nearly what everyone including auto manufacturers anticipated. The Ford info I posted is public info. They aren't alone in putting a pause on their expansion projects for BEV.

So the grid doesn't have enough capacity to support charging BEVs, but that same grid will support creating hydrogen on site, and using that to power the same vehicles, despite the reduced efficiency of going the hydrogen route compared to charging a battery?

Most current on-site hydrogen production i am aware of is done through a steam methane reformer and requires a supply of natural gas. Electrolyzers are the future for production though. NASA has developed and is using an oxide electrolizer that produces hydrogen using 30% less electricity than previous electrolizers. This at their CA facility. It is a huge gain. The technology is improving and unlike BEV will have the sustainability and range of a comparable internal combustion engine, minus the wear and tear and maintenance costs.