Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ross Turner said:
Gee, your thorough over there. Clearance said something similar too.
Over hear a one day course and your OK!
Electrical Training--not just for clearance guys!
- Thread starter treeseer
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Gee, your thorough over there. Clearance said something similar too.
Over hear a one day course and your OK!
Thor's Hammer
ArboristSite Guru
Very difficult to work on big gums without spikes, pruning or takedown i know that much...
What their probably thinking is if they allow spikes to be used for take downs, they'll be used for climbing. they probably want to ban them off site completly.
I can't see them being able to enforce this.
Myself, i understand the damage spikes do to the cambium, and i never use them on pruning work over here. However i did use them down unda, with a few self imposed rules- 1. use very long narrow and above all sharp gaffs as this keeps the wound to a minimum. 2. use as big a step as possible each time, and think carefully where your foot/gaff is going. 3. if you just need them to access the crown, throw them down when your up. 4. before you go up, swab the spikes in alcohol to prevent transfering any pathogens around the tree.
Bit of a pain, but it eased my concience...
What their probably thinking is if they allow spikes to be used for take downs, they'll be used for climbing. they probably want to ban them off site completly.
I can't see them being able to enforce this.
Myself, i understand the damage spikes do to the cambium, and i never use them on pruning work over here. However i did use them down unda, with a few self imposed rules- 1. use very long narrow and above all sharp gaffs as this keeps the wound to a minimum. 2. use as big a step as possible each time, and think carefully where your foot/gaff is going. 3. if you just need them to access the crown, throw them down when your up. 4. before you go up, swab the spikes in alcohol to prevent transfering any pathogens around the tree.
Bit of a pain, but it eased my concience...
juststumps
ArboristSite Guru
guys, be careful... less than 440v avoid contact,,anything over 440v, is 3 feet and up....ie, 12,000v =3 foot ,,, 138,000v is 8 feet,,,, using a boom , or a bucket, its 15 feet...unless it is out and grounded...(they are my guide lines for work,, i work on this stuff everyday) you really don't want to be on the losing end of freddie kilovolt!!! line clearing guys have training on this type of work.(i'm not trained to do that)..i'm a high voltage electrician for amtrak during the day,,,we don't do anything over 440v live...seen too many guys ruin their life...last thing you want to do, is dump your cooler on a coworker that is on fire!!!!!...it aint pretty, and there's no do overs!!!!!!!!!!
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
The limits that juststumps is talking about seem pretty much the same as ours, but remember those are absolute limits that include swing and inadvertant movement. Those limits are for certified utility arborists (hacks like me) I.S.A. certification means nothing here. I say stay the f. back and at least 10' back including vegetation on lines that are high voltage or anything you are not sure about. They don't call it power for nothing.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Clear,
The EHAP program is setup to so that the employer is the certifier. There are training and education requirements along with other training that the employer provides.
The EHAP program hasn't got anything to do with the ISA line clearance program.
The EHAP program is setup to so that the employer is the certifier. There are training and education requirements along with other training that the employer provides.
The EHAP program hasn't got anything to do with the ISA line clearance program.
pennywize
ArboristSite Lurker
topnotchtree said:
Unless I'm mistaken a 60 watt (average) light bulb powered by a nominal 115 VAC would only be .52 amps. Just over half an amp, not 6. If an average light bulb was 6 amps you couldn't even run 3 light bulbs on a standard 15 amp circuit in a home!! But depending on the voltage it does take a very very small curent to stop the heart if the current passes through the heart.
Amps=Watts/Volts
Watts=Volts X Amps
my $0.02
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tom-the I.S.A. should stay the hell away from powerlines and stick to looking after trees. After the incompetence I have seen from I.S.A. arborists that work for cities and municipalities I cringe to think about them ever telling someone how to work around high voltage. Just another case of people putting thier nose where it doesn't belong, call Asplundh or someone else who is qualified.
clearance said:
Clearance, for clarity's sake:
The TCIA is coordinating this training; ISA has nothing to do with it.
Certified arborist test has nothing on electricity.
Just because someone has passed the cert test does not mean they represent the isa. If you have to deal with an underinformed forester, should you blame the SAF for their behavior?
Every arborist org's nose belongs in the business of safety around wires. Or are you saying we should call a utility contractor every time we work with a tree that's <15' from one?
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Clearance,
You have no clue what you're talking about. The ISA has nothing to do with this program. Apples and oranges.
I challenge you...can you make five posts in a row without spewing on the ISA? Do you really think that your experiences with a few ISA arbos is valid across the board? That's like saying all utility line clearance trimmers are knuckleheads and hacks. Is that valid?
You have no clue what you're talking about. The ISA has nothing to do with this program. Apples and oranges.
I challenge you...can you make five posts in a row without spewing on the ISA? Do you really think that your experiences with a few ISA arbos is valid across the board? That's like saying all utility line clearance trimmers are knuckleheads and hacks. Is that valid?
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tom-you and your treehugging buddies have called me a hack many times, among other things. Utility guys are looked down on by many "arbos", but they do the hard and dangerous work to keep the power on. The I.S.A. does have a line clearance arborist certification gig, do they not. People that put trees first have no businees teaching anyone how to work safely around powerlines, trees always come third, after men and the line. Anyways, regarding our earlier online scraps, did you ever get an answer from B.C. Hydro why it is fine to always wear spurs to climb? www.bchydro.com
"BC Hydro generally does not clear service wires unless there is a serious electrical hazard. It is recommended that homeowners hire professional tree firms. If homeowners wish to prune their own trees, BC Hydro will remove the wire to allow the pruning to be done, and reinstall it when the job is complete. In most cases there is no charge for this service
BC Hydro specifications call for pruning practices which will not only provide for safety clearances, but also are best for the trees.
Studies in arboriculture (the care of trees) have shown that certain forms of pruning are much less damaging to the health of the tree than others...If requested, BC Hydro will also help with the removal of trees on private property which need regular pruning to prevent them from growing into power lines, or which might become hazardous at a later date.
... BC Hydro’s pruning work is done by contractors. Each contractor must have a fully trained and equipped staff. Their credentials and the safety of their equipment is checked by BC Hydro. The contractors’ workers are trained in safety and proper pruning techniques. These professionals are your allies in maintaining safe, reliable electrical service."
So clearance, are you one of those allies?
Nowhere on the website I could see do they say spikes on prunes is encouraged or tolerated. The quotes i pulled out indicate otherwise; the policies sound very similar to those of US utilities. I doubt they would respond to questions from treeguys in CO or NC, so it's one word against another. I believe you that in the backwoods spike use may be tolerated.
So anyway, I hope we can agree that EHAP training is not comprehensive as company-sponsored training, but that for $10 non-utility experts like me might gain something worthwhile.
Peace, clearance.
BC Hydro specifications call for pruning practices which will not only provide for safety clearances, but also are best for the trees.
Studies in arboriculture (the care of trees) have shown that certain forms of pruning are much less damaging to the health of the tree than others...If requested, BC Hydro will also help with the removal of trees on private property which need regular pruning to prevent them from growing into power lines, or which might become hazardous at a later date.
... BC Hydro’s pruning work is done by contractors. Each contractor must have a fully trained and equipped staff. Their credentials and the safety of their equipment is checked by BC Hydro. The contractors’ workers are trained in safety and proper pruning techniques. These professionals are your allies in maintaining safe, reliable electrical service."
So clearance, are you one of those allies?
Nowhere on the website I could see do they say spikes on prunes is encouraged or tolerated. The quotes i pulled out indicate otherwise; the policies sound very similar to those of US utilities. I doubt they would respond to questions from treeguys in CO or NC, so it's one word against another. I believe you that in the backwoods spike use may be tolerated.So anyway, I hope we can agree that EHAP training is not comprehensive as company-sponsored training, but that for $10 non-utility experts like me might gain something worthwhile.
Peace, clearance.
juststumps
ArboristSite Guru
nice thing about utility companies,,, if you get into a wire ,,, they will trip out....BUT!!!! they have a neat feature,,, "re closers" ,,,they will try to energize the circut,,, 2,3,4,5 times,depending on the system....before it locks out.....ie, something falling into the wires,, circut dumps.. turns back on..hopefully the fault cleared,,,and the circut holds,, everythings back normal... you dont want to be that,,,climber that slipped,,,groundie that tagged a line the wrong way,,,bucket pilot that swung the wrong way,,,OR THE HERO TO SAVE YOUR BUDDY!!!! unless its a fused circut,,it will try to come back on.....stay away,, if in trouble,, call 911.....my company just lost a man,,married,, 2 kids, 1 one the way......lasted 2 days with 80% burns.....happened about a month ago in baltimore....about 10 years ago,, princeton university student climbed on top of a train drunk....lost both legs and one arm.....both were 12,000 volts..thats only a few of the many lives that have been ruined....i got plenty more...please don't be a story!!!!! JD
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
clearance said:
The EHAP program, as presented by TCIA, isn't meant to train anyone to be a utility line clearance tree trimmer. That is way beyond the scope of the program. Study the name of the program word by word and you'll understand that better, especially the A part of the title.
PS You have five more to go
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tom and Treeseer-B.C. Hydro is a very p.c. company, they really worry about the public more than the utility guys who do the work (generally and speaking of them as a corporation, some of their guys are great). This is odd, to me at least because they have a monopoly on power distribution in most of B.C.. They really do a lot of p.r. work, some of it good, in regards to safety and advice on planting the right trees beside the lines, and some of it suckholing to the public when they have done nothing wrong i.e. removing high profile hazard trees. Why I feel it is o.k. to wear spikes by B.C. Hydro is because I meet with them constantly, from vegetation supervisors to higher ups and have never heard one word about spurs good or bad. Juststumps talks about reclosers, here when we work on the line, we hold an assurance of no reclose permit on the circuit we are working on, (a.n.r.p.). This ensures that once a fault is detected the circuit will not reclose and is killed (de-energized). That circuit will not be re-energized untill we have been contacted and advised. Peace, stay safe.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
One down, four to go
Ross Turner
ArboristSite Operative
In certain parts of the Uk you can if needed ask for the recloser to be put on to one shot,Which means aftre is been hit once it stays out until you inform the power company the system is safe to renergise.
juststumps
ArboristSite Guru
Single shot reclose, thats the deal. Doesn't protect you that much cause all it takes is one hit to kill you, it is really there to prevent electrical equipment from damage.
clearance is right,,1 shot is too much...princeton kid ,, lost both legs, one arm..circut didn't trip..... he got burned out really fast....,,, circut never saw him....it was to fast for our equipment..
climbing on a train $0
getting blown up $0
losing two legs, one arm.$0
eight months in the hospital.. $0
law suit, $65,000,000
going home with your body parts ,,,PRICELESS!!!!!
clearance is right,,1 shot is too much...princeton kid ,, lost both legs, one arm..circut didn't trip..... he got burned out really fast....,,, circut never saw him....it was to fast for our equipment..
climbing on a train $0
getting blown up $0
losing two legs, one arm.$0
eight months in the hospital.. $0
law suit, $65,000,000
going home with your body parts ,,,PRICELESS!!!!!
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
juststumps-that sucks the worst. Today I was supervising an apprentice utility arborist climbing on a r.o.w.. I am trying to teach him that an insulated pole pruner (Jamieson) can be your best friend and that it is better to snip or bust up the overhang before you cut it with your 020. I do not trust him to let him work without me watching him at all times. I know what will happen if a branch or top touches the 25kv line when it is attached to the tree he is in. He says stuff like "I think it'll go, I'll cut it right here" As you know in the utility field you cannot just think, you have to KNOW it'll go. Stay safe, put yourself and your buddies first always.
Jim1NZ
ArboristSite Guru
Its amasing, some people just forget there is actually power that can kill you running through lines your working next to. Dont take power lines for granted! It will end up biting you in the ass. Or worse.
