Elm ?

[Whitespider]

I burned a bunch of American Elm that was cut green. ... For a lightweight, low density wood it definitely didn't ignite easily. I could light paper thin pieces with a match and they'd burn slowly or even go out. Throwing a piece on the coals in the morning only resulted in a cool, lazy fire that really needed help from other wood. This wood had seasoned for at least a year in the shed after being split...

WOW! That doesn't sound like any American Elm I've burned, sounds more like a description of Russian Elm, real crap. I've got maybe 4-cord of American Elm in the basement right now... Just started a fire a few minutes ago, filled it up with 4-6 inch splits, no kindling, just shoved in a single piece of crumpled notebook paper... had a good fire going in less than five minutes. In fact, I usually use a few splits of elm to get my oak burning good. I don't think I'd classify American Elm as "lightweight, low density wood" either, more like in the medium range... Again, it sounds like you're describing what's called Russian Elm here in the U.S.

The Russian Elm isn't really from Russia, actually it's from Europe where it's called the White Elm. The stuff makes horrible firewood... hard to light, smolders like rotten, punky wood and produces little heat. At one time (mostly in eastern areas), it was been sparsely planted here in the U.S. as a shade-tree, I don't think anybody continues to plant it in the U.S. Here is a description, from Wikipedia, of the wood produced by the Russian (or White) Elm...
"The timber of the White Elm is of poor quality and thus of little use to man, not even as firewood. Its density is significantly lower than that of other European elms."
Also...
"...and is most closely related to the American Elm, from which it differs mainly in the irregular crown shape and frequent small sprout stems on the trunk and branches."

There are dozens of species of Elm growing in the U.S., most of which are imported... learning to identify the natives from the imports can be a bit challenging because, except for subtle differences, they all look the same (The Russian (European White) Elm and American Elm look identical growing side-by-side). There are a couple Russian Elms growing in the local town... big trees that drop limbs every time the wind blows.

 

[Whitespider]

Another clue that what you had wouldn't be American Elm is the fact that you say it "was cut green." The chances of finding American Elm of any respectable size growing east of the Great Lakes is slim... Dutch Elm Disease near wiped them out in that area years ago... anything of size will probably be an import or hybrid of some sort.

 

[1project2many]

Whitespider, you're the one who first pointed out the wood was likely American Elm. See this thread for reference. I have plenty of small AE here on my property. They grow to 6-8" then die. The large tree that was a source for several years' wood was next to a building surrounded by a large open area in a downtown area. The only other tree nearby was a Boxelder. With no other close trees, isn't it possible for it to escape DED for a few years? I have seen American Chestnut escape the blight for many years when planted far enough away from other trees.

I can pull pieces of the wood from the large tree, a small split of AE I just took down last weekend, and the Siberian Elm which I picked up this spring and place them side by side for photos. The wood from the large tree is definitely not the same wood as Siberian Elm. But with positive ID maybe the photos can be placed in the wood id reference sticky.

 

[Whitespider]

Well 1project2many… In that other post I didn’t say it “was likely American Elm.”
What I said was, “That stringy stuff in your first picture isn't Slippery Elm... Slippery elm and Red Elm are the same thing. That stuff in the picture could be American Elm, Siberian Elm or even Chinese Elm... hard to identify for certain from the picture. Slippery (Red) Elm is stringy when split, but nothing like those in that picture.”

But, what you are describing in this thread isn’t like any American Elm I have, or have burned.

 

[kyle1!]

Pics

I can pull pieces of the wood from the large tree, a small split of AE I just took down last weekend, and the Siberian Elm which I picked up this spring and place them side by side for photos. The wood from the large tree is definitely not the same wood as Siberian Elm. But with positive ID maybe the photos can be placed in the wood id reference sticky.

if you can take pics that would be great. I have some type of elm, probably the white elm, in my yard that is quite invasive. One of the trees is this large grand specimen with 36 in dia trunk but the other one (24in diam)is this crooked growing at 45 deg angle and dropping tons of its lower branches. Everytime I see all these dead branches I want to break out a saw but it keeps on living.

Brian

 

[Nosmo]

I"ll Take Elm Anyday of the Week

Elm is probably my favorite wood to cut and burn. He is a photo of my next year's stacks taken 10-1-11 and more has been added since then.

I generally have no problems splitting it but I have noticed there is one which is a lot more stringy and twisted than others. Sorry but I cannot tell which one it is because I don't know one variety of elm from the other.

It seems to me seasoned elm splits easier in a splitter and it helps to turn the round with the weather checks aligned with the wedge.

In my area we've got plenty of elm -- some dead and standing and some still alive and doing well. The ones with mistletoe are not going to be around many more years.

Nosmo

 

[1project2many]

Well 1project2many… In that other post I didn’t say it “was likely American Elm.”

No, you didn't. In that thread I quoted information from a previous post which describes some of AE's characteristics. Although I attributed that description to you, the paragraph apparently doesn't exist anywhere on this site or on the 'net other than in my quote. With no backing, I can only say I apologize for the mis-attribution. I will try to get pictures in the next couple of days. Maybe it will help, and maybe it won't.

 

[Wood Doctor]

In Texas, Houston area, you would have three likely species of elm, two of which would be natural or native. The American Elm and Cedar Elm are both native to southern and eastern Texas, and the imported Siberian Elm could be found near anywhere in the U.S. I have no experience with the Cedar Elm but would think it's a lot like the American Elm. Both the American and Siberian Elm will split much easier if it's allow to season in-the-round for a year or so. As far as firewood quality, heating value, I would place it a bit higher than most charts I've seen... with American Elm being somewhat better than the Siberian.

One other possibility would be the Red Elm (Slippery Elm), but its natural range is considered a bit north of the Houston area and east Texas is the far western reaches of that range... still. The Red Elm is a different animal all-together, way under-rated on any chart I've ever seen... which makes me think that the people making those charts have never actually seen, handled and burned Red Elm. It is a heavy, dense wood... with heating values approaching that of Red Oak. Red Elm isn't near as stringy as American Elm and will actually split easier wet than dry... wet, frozen Red Elm can be split with a maul... hard, dry Red Elm will make all but the stoutest of hydraulic splitters scream in agony.

Overall, I like this post, but I think Red Elm also needs to be dried at least 3 months before splitting. When the thick bark starts falling off, you can split it rather easily and it's not stringy like other elm varieties. You will have fine firewood about three-to-five months later, depending on drying conditions. Once dry, Red Elm firewood is really hard to beat--burns slowly with no sparks. It rates right alongside ash.

There is some elm out there that actually has a twisted, spiral grain and is almost impossible to split. No one seems to know what that stuff is, but it is neither American nor Red Elm. It will stall out 20-ton log splitters, even if the round is straight up and not crotch. I have heard that it is some strange hybrid and also not Chinese elm. When I encounter this beast, I give it to my friend who throws it into a huge bonfire at his beach party once a year. If anyone knows what this stuff is, please advise. The bark and the leaf is quite similar to other good elm, and thus hard to identify prior to cutting.

 

[Fifelaker]

My dad and I got into what we were told was red elm about 30 wears ogo. I have never seen sparks come off the 8 lb maul before. The chainsaw looked like the forth of July fire works show also the maul came back up as fast as it went down. It did burn very well as I recall.

 

[Whitespider]

1project2many
I went back and looked at that thread again... In it you did quote a from another thread describing the characteristics of American Elm... And yes, it was something I had originally posted.
By-the-way... Never any need for apologies, I'm pretty thick skinned... and you'll find I always own-up.

 

[Fifelaker]

Wood doctor I got some of that wood you speak of this summer. I would be banned in half a heart beat if I told you the names we used for it

 

[Whitespider]

There is some elm out there that actually has a twisted, spiral grain and is almost impossible to split. No one seems to know what that stuff is, but it is neither American nor Red Elm. It will stall out 20-ton log splitters, even if the round is straight up and not crotch. I have heard that it is some strange hybrid and also not Chinese elm. When I encounter this beast, I give it to my friend who throws it into a huge bonfire at his beach party once a year. If anyone knows what this stuff is, please advise. The bark and the leaf is quite similar to other good elm, and thus hard to identify prior to cutting.

Now this is a timely post... I just came in the house from splitting some elm, a standing-dead I felled and bucked on Saturday. It wasn't dead from disease, rather it had been "ringed" by the power company about a year ago. I was positive it was American Elm but... horribly stringy and very dark colored in the center 2/3's or so, darker than any elm I've ever come across. The bark was classic American Elm, even had the dark and creamy-white layers... but it ain't like any American Elm I've split before, the splitter had to tear its way the full length of the rounds. I split the limb wood last weekend and it wasn't any different than American Elm, but this main trunk is weird... I'm scratchin' my head a bit.

I've read that Siberian Elm will readily and naturally hybridize with Red Elm in the wild... Kind'a makes me wonder, but I'm not sure how to confirm without scientific evaluation. Probably won't be burning it this year, the main trunk was pretty wet... haf'ta see what it's like after it seasons good.

 

[bobt]

Over twenty years ago, I burned elm almost exclusively for a couple of years.

Back then, my family owned some land that had an abundance of what we called "piss elm" on it that had been killed by dutch elm disease. (The disease killed off all the elm in our area). To make a long story short, we cut enough of that standing dead elm to supply four houses with heat for two years. The darn stuff certainly was hard to split, but we shared a hydraulic wood splitter, and because of that it wasn't hard to use. If we had to split by hand, well that is another story! Talk about twisted grain!

It made heat alright, but I certainly wouldn't go looking for it again, even if it was still available. I would say it is better than poplar, but certainly not as good as oak or hard maple. It liked to smolder without lots of draft, and I was up in the night filling the stove. Not a premium wood for sure.

Bob

 

[Woodcutteranon]

God Bless the Elm

 

[haveawoody]

Whitespider,

Sounds like rock elm to me.
It looks much like american elm, but splits like a stringy nightmare.
I would say how was it to chainsaw? rock elm is very tough on chains and very slow to cut.
First time i ever cut one i thought my sharp chain was dull.
Rock elm has a hairy texture underneath it's leaf, easy id.

Best of the best as firewood , two year cure wait though, or a full year on dead stuff.
Burn it earlier than that and it's just an ok firewood.
You will find all other elm wood is better with long cure times also, then it goes from smolder wood to very hot burning wood.
For me when i cure elm i make sure it goes in a wood barn so it never gets rained on, elm likes soaking in rain and making much longer cure times.

 

[Whitespider]

Hmmmmm...... Yeah, Rock Elm is a possibility. It's been a few years since I cut Rock Elm, it's not as common as the Red Elm in this area... I'll have to give it a closer look. And yeah, it was slow to cut... but most standing-dead elm is.

Thinking about it more, I do believe it is Rock Elm... I'll go break another piece of the bark in half today, maybe it didn't have the dark/light layers... maybe I'm thinking of another tree. I have several elm picked out for felling this fall, some American and some Red Elm, so I could have gotten this one confused with another as far as the bark. And you're right, as I remember it that Rock Elm is stringy and seasons about as slow as oak... and is heavy, heavier than Red Elm.

 

[haveawoody]

Whitespider,

I think rock elm is the only wood that needs a splitter and a hatchet to remove it from the splitter. LOL
I have cut a few Rock that had quite a brownish layer inside but in general they look very much like american the wood and bark, weight is a dead giveway for rock elm if you have no leaf to look at.

I hear you on dead elm, never a picnic to cut any of them.

If you do id it as Rock elm though i would store it away in a personal stash for your woodstove.
Long cure but wow for heat when ready.


Firewood Cutting Accessory - The Mingo Marker®
Under (btu values by species)

 

[sb47]

I have no clue as to what kind of elm it is. I can say that when I cut it even with a sharp chain it seems to throw very small and dusty chips. Not even chips really, more like dust.
The bark is thin and peels off very easy in long strips.
The wood is light in weight compared to the oak I’m use to cutting.
Kinda smelly when I cut it.
Sorry I don't have a camera to post a sample picture.

 

[haveawoody]

sb47,

That sounds more like box elder than elm, though box elder is a softish wood so chain work is pretty quick.
Might be chinese elm, it's a smelly wood, semi tough stuff to chain when dead, also lighter than oak.
Chinese elm looks nothing like any native elm though.

 

[blades]

Piss Elm in the native tongue.