exit strategies for poles due to be felled

[Tom Dunlap]

It is so wrong to descend on a rigging line. It constantly surprises me how often people do that. This is a basic safety protocol that isn't accepted in arborculture but is standard in other rope disciplines.

Why is this?

Since any climber is supposed to have their climbing line with them at all times, why would you ever consider using the rigging line? Choke the climbing line on the backside of the spar and rap on it, not the rigging line.

KISS doesn't mean doing things that are unsafe just because there are less pieces of equipment. If this were true we wouldn't be driving trucks and using chainsaws. We'd be walking and using misery whips for felling.

Using a figure eight or a Munter is no different as far as safety is concerned. Actually, the Munter develops more friction which makes it a better choice for rappeling. Why not get a descender like an Anthron? If the handle is pulled too far or let go, it locks off. There's a sweet spot that allows for rapping down.

The Rope Guide, either purchased or homemade, is a great tool for this situation.

 

[Tree Machine]

You're right Tom. I only put that out there because I know where my ropes have been, and to what kind of forces they've been subjected. I do all my own rigging and lowering from up in the tree, very rarely lower something more than twice my weight, never a shockload. This would doubtfully weaken a 10,400 lb tensile rope enough to make it even vaguely worrisome. This would probably not be true with the bull ropes of most treeguys. My methods of takedown do not involve lowering large, heavy limbs. Most arborists do, so I retract my technique for anyone else's practice.

The very last time I did this, the tree's top had been blown out. Spiking up with a flipline, I didn't really see a safety advantage in carrying two ropes up, even as conservative as I am up in the air, but not to argue. Your point is valid.

 

[Old Monkey]

Tom with all due respect, there is difference between "safe" and "fool proof." I have never felt unsafe rappelling ropes with a figure eight while rock climbing or tree climbing. While it seems safe to me I understand that it is not "fool proof." If I am incapacitated I will continue to descend uncontrolled. In this business there are many things that I think are safe for experienced tree climbers to do but are not fool proof. I think everyone should find there own line between the two. Also I think a figure eight is safer than a muntner because there is less rope on rope friction and you can lock off.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I can see the reason for ANSI having the prohibition on climbing lines for rigging, it is to keep the unscrupulouse employer from making the worker use just one rope.

As far as general safety is concerned I am very safe and have found myself on many occasion arguing with a client, or trying to convince them that another way is better (eg tieing into a neighbors tree for haard removals, because it's better to go home whole then to avoid an angry neighbor. even if you are "sure" that the removal will not give out while climbing).

I do ligh rigging off my rope end, because I'm not applying any forces greater then my climbing. When rapping down a 1/2 inch stable-braid, my 220# is not going to put forces greater then what I will put on it on a regular basis...If I have to worry about my wight rapping out of the tree, then i should retire the rope.

The munter is a hitch of last resort, because it uses rope-on-rope friction to break the climber.

 

[Tree Machine]

But isn't the sheath on stable braid designed specifically to take on the abrasion? Friction hitches are rope on rope friction. I would think rope on bark with weight and some speed would be far worse on a rope sheath than a climber's weight and controlled descent. Of course, with John Paul Sanborn, we're talking a different horse. He claims #220, but that's just one leg.


Many will poo poo the idea of running a rope around the small diameter of a biner, which I can understand if you're rigging beeg-o honkin pieces. With a climber's weight at less than 1/2 the rated safe working load of a rope, I don't see the concern. I avoid the Munter hitch also, but that's because it twists the rope.

Oops...., sorry. The subject here it exiting out of the top of a pole.

 

[Jim1NZ]

If you absolutely HAVE to, make that a double bowline, and figure 8 decent on it

NOTE: You should NEVER climb on rigging lines, whether it just for a decent or whatever.

I use my ART rope guide as a retrievable false crotch and go down on my climbing line.

 

[treeman82]

I remember talking with Tom Houston once about climbing lines and rigging lines. He found it strange that when an arborist goes to retire their climbing line, that they will then use it for lowering things that are over houses that odds are, are heavier than the climber. His basic message was a climber is 200 lbs give or take 80 lbs? To retire that rope and use it for weights in excess of 300 lbs regularly over rooftops and what not is foolish.

Just a slightly different point of view.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Good point of view tree man, i don't think a retired climbing line should be used for rigging over roof tops either. Climbing lines have generally been retired for a reason, whether it be nicked, taken a big fall or just plain worn out. It is amazing how much an old rope is weakened during its life.

It is the dynamic loading that is the problem.

There are situations where an old climbing line can be used and situations where it shouldn't. It is the responsible arborist who must make the rite call.