Fair treatment?

[bradstr]

I have to say that I am thoroughly frustrated and discouraged with the log selling portion of the logging business. I am sick of being shorted/cheated whatever you want to call it when I send my logs to the mill. I am a low volume guy so I put a stick to every log so I know exactly what I'm sending grade/species/scale etc. So when I get the mill sheet a week or so later that doesn't add up I get fired up! And the worst part is what can you do? They seem to hold all the keys. Sure I call them and explain my side and they say that they think its fair etc etc etc. But at the end of the day, I ended up getting X amount of bf of wood out of the forest for free! The worst parts is that it feels like someone has put there hand in my pocket (not to mention the landowner) and that's just not right! I don't remember seeing any of them in the woods helping me get the wood out! I have story after story of this and it grows old! Now that I have vented a little I'm very curious to hear other people's experiences and insight on this issue.

 

[woodfarmer]

is it worth it!

unless its veneer or high grade lumber, it almost seems firewood is as good a return as milling.ie ash logs 2 hrs to get logs to mill, 2hrs to mill, 2hrs home and stickered, 6hrs x$60=$360.
lumber 4x4x10=160 cubic feet, (i'm not going to get too technical with the sticker spaces)400 bd ft x $1=$400. if i get $1 bd ft.
firewood $2.34 cu ft x 160=$375.
so is lumber really worth the extra $25, you tell me?

 

[USFWC]

You only have one mill you may choose to go to? If so, that is the problem...they have the market in their pocket and can make their own price (and short you, especially if you are not there haggling with them on every log). You are what they refer to as a price taker. Unless you have another choice, things are going to stay the same. Are you buying the timber directly from the landowners? If so, you can pass the 'loss' on to them in the form of lower prices for the timber, but if you have a lot of competition from other buyers, you may not be able to do this. The larger buyers can do it because they make up for it in volume. It really hurts the smaller buyers though.

Do you have some sort of local timber buyer's 'association' that you can join?

 

[turnkey4099]

Never been involved in logging other than having lived in the midst of, or near, it all my life except for service time. I was hearing the same complaints backwhen I was a kid and I am sure that they are valid. It's the old 'rubber scale stick' thing, Mill says the producer scales high, producer says the mill scales low. IMO they are probably both right depending on place and time.

Harry K

 

[Gologit]

Fair? No,it's not fair at all. But it's not unusual either. That doesn't make it right and I agree you have a legitimate gripe but its something that has happened historically in the logging business. If they're shorting you to the point where you can't make a buck you'll just have to make the decision to stay in logging or find a niche market (firewood,furniture cants,gunstock burls etc.) or get out entirely. Sorry I can't put a brighter light on this for you.

 

[Rick Alger]

Fair treatment

I find it is generally a matter of supply and demand. If the mill's inventory is down, and mud season is fast approaching, they usually give you an excellent scale. But if the economy is slow, the scalers seem to have a lot more time to find defects.

I've sold softwood logs scaled by the ton to a Canadian mill and they were fair.

I've sold white pine by grade and by run-of-the -tree. Run-of-the-tree worked better for me.

With high quality hardwood, I've had good luck with a local collection yard.

 

[beowulf343]

Where abouts in NY are you?
This is one of the reasons I decided not to take over the family logging business. Too many of the big mills seem this way. There are a couple small mills in my area of NY that I've done alot of business with and they have always treated me fair. Plus I like the small mills because you can talk right to the owner/operator and vent your concerns and thoughts to someone who can actually do something about them.

 

[bradstr]

Yes, that has been my experience too. When they need logs the stick is long but when inventories are up the stick gets short.

beowulf343: I'm in the adirondacks.

 

[Buzz 880]

Fair Treatment

I have to say that I am thoroughly frustrated and discouraged with the log selling portion of the logging business. I am sick of being shorted/cheated whatever you want to call it when I send my logs to the mill. I am a low volume guy so I put a stick to every log so I know exactly what I'm sending grade/species/scale etc. So when I get the mill sheet a week or so later that doesn't add up I get fired up! And the worst part is what can you do? They seem to hold all the keys. Sure I call them and explain my side and they say that they think its fair etc etc etc. But at the end of the day, I ended up getting X amount of bf of wood out of the forest for free! The worst parts is that it feels like someone has put there hand in my pocket (not to mention the landowner) and that's just not right! I don't remember seeing any of them in the woods helping me get the wood out! I have story after story of this and it grows old! Now that I have vented a little I'm very curious to hear other people's experiences and insight on this issue.

If you want to treated fair in the logging industry now adays good luck...
I know here in Ontario over the last year or two thing just keep getting sh.tter all the time.I sold logs to big mills,small ones and brokers and it's all the same the logger always seems to get the short end of the stick.And then the land owners are pissed because they see a nice load of logs going down the road when they end up with a check that they can barely buy any thing with.Anyways now that i have vented a little bit the best thing that I have found is to jump around from buyer to buyer that way they seem to treat you good the first couple times so they can keep coming back.I use to be loyal to one or two buyers but i don't see the sense in that anymore because they don't seem to be loyal to me.

 

[Buzz 880]

Fair Treatment

I have to say that I am thoroughly frustrated and discouraged with the log selling portion of the logging business. I am sick of being shorted/cheated whatever you want to call it when I send my logs to the mill. I am a low volume guy so I put a stick to every log so I know exactly what I'm sending grade/species/scale etc. So when I get the mill sheet a week or so later that doesn't add up I get fired up! And the worst part is what can you do? They seem to hold all the keys. Sure I call them and explain my side and they say that they think its fair etc etc etc. But at the end of the day, I ended up getting X amount of bf of wood out of the forest for free! The worst parts is that it feels like someone has put there hand in my pocket (not to mention the landowner) and that's just not right! I don't remember seeing any of them in the woods helping me get the wood out! I have story after story of this and it grows old! Now that I have vented a little I'm very curious to hear other people's experiences and insight on this issue.

If you want to treated fair in the logging industry now adays good luck...
I know here in Ontario over the last year or two thing just keep getting sh.tter all the time.I sold logs to big mills,small ones and brokers and it's all the same the logger always seems to get the short end of the stick.And then the land owners are pissed because they see a nice load of logs going down the road when they end up with a check that they can barely buy any thing with.Anyways now that i have vented a little bit the best thing that I have found is to jump around from buyer to buyer that way they seem to treat you good the first couple times so they can keep coming back.I use to be loyal to one or two buyers but i don't see the sense in that anymore because they don't seem to be loyal to me.

 

[Ryan Willock]

Why do you think I'm not full time logging any more??? I got tired of taking it in the @ss from the mills!!!

 

[Buzz 880]

Why do you think I'm not full time logging any more??? I got tired of taking it in the @ss from the mills!!!

Isn't that the truth the way prices are right now i'm not sure if it's worth going back to the bush this spring unless things start going back up.

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

it's Logging , all I can say is get used to it..it's only gets worse before it gets better trust me.. I would look elsewhere for log buyers for starters .. once you get with a good buyer , it will be smooth sailing , till the market slows down .

Later Rob

 

[Buzz 880]

it's Logging , all I can say is get used to it..it's only gets worse before it gets better trust me.. I would look elsewhere for log buyers for starters .. once you get with a good buyer , it will be smooth sailing , till the market slows down .

Later Rob

Had a couple good buyers one fella has being buying my timber for about five years now.But things this winter went on down hill so i tried a few other guys found one treated me pretty good but I talked to him yesterday and he was saying that thing aren't looking very good for this summer.Might just have to go fishing and work on keeping the beer store in bussisness

Stihl Magnum

Are the prices your way staying around the same as always

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Hardwood is dropping out ..Pine usually stays around the same , does'nt flucuate as much as the harwood does.. What about up your way , how is it there ??

Low grade / pulp you cant even give away almost , mostly all low grade timber is getting chipped and sent to the new power plant in Portsmouth PSNH just opened last year..

So the chip market is fairly strong.."right now " anyway that could easily change..The wood market is always up and down..you have great years and you have bad years..it's the way the logging industry is and well probably always will be..

Later Rob

 

[Buzz 880]

The bottom fell out of the Oak market last year the maple had been pretty good till half way threw this winter then it went for a sh.t.As for the pine it wasn't to bad till last summer we had a big storm flattened 12 million feet on the crown land just around my neck of the woods now you could not give a pine log away if you wanted to.I think the pulp isn't to bad last checked.I hope things get better for summer don't really think i want to cut firewood all summer:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[gavin]

maybe it works different here...last time i was out with my buddy's dad a scaler came to the site and looked at the logs he had decked and basically said we'll give you X amount/cube for this grade, and Y amount/cube for this grade, we'll give you Z amount for these logs because they have powder worm. he told me lots of times he will contact mills and they'll bid on them, and sometimes that will raise the price because they will outbid each other because one mill might need a certain species more. but these logs were all bucked to grade by a faller to preferred lengths to grade. i think he contacts both mills and log home builders too.

 

[frankyslog]

getting skinned on our log scale!!!

man i couldent agree with bradstr more, on the subject north michigan and the upper are a mess. i dont know what is gonna become of this industry at least for the small guy (like myself) i buy cut and sell timber, i primarily custom cut bought up stumpage for mills, dealing with private land owners that follow you all over there woods and tell ya how to cut a tree.!! (what a joke) im as fustrated as any one making a living in timber, comp is getting rediculous! the price the mills want to pay per cord . (custom harvest) they haul logs from landing, is very unfair. considering owner operator expences these days. ive got a great reputation as a quality cutting contractor, wich should mean every thing to them (the mills) if there in it for the long haul, doesnt mean squat!!! and then cheat us on scale!!! after baby sitting there customer in the woods during the cutting, to keep them from getting killed!!! and theres always the can you fix this.( machine time) or pick up these tops and move them around for my customer, and some in the past that cryed poverty ended up spending a half million. on new equipment and decided to get into the harvesting end of it to. to elimanate the piss pore! price they were paying to contract harvest.something has to change. its no secret the money is in sawing/drying selling timber however, us guys doing the (back work) need to survive also.