Felling Question

[Pierreg]

Greetings.A simple question for the pro's.When you begin your wedge,is it a smart move to make the bottom of the wedge angle downhill? It seems that when the backcut is started,plastic wedge behind the bar,the tree seems very naturally starting to fall instead of a straight cut where sometimes atap,tap on the wedge will get the tree moving.I do not consider myself an expert and was wondering what the experts do.I just don't like that feeling when a tree comes back on your bar.The wedges for me are always close by to but in the backcut. Thanks for your input.

 

[Dayto]

You should place a wedge in by hand as soon as you clear the bar (un-less its a leaner and you falling the lean then no need) And carry on with your backcut , tap wedge as needed. Then you never have to worry about getting pinched.And im sure you know when you tap wedges stay outta the bite(They can kick out , and bust you up) and LOOK UP!!!!

Just my .02

WESTCOAST FALLER.

 

[056kid]

Depends if its the wedge's back cut or the back cut's wedge really. . .

 

[gwiley]

Depends if its the wedge's back cut or the back cut's wedge really. . .

Maybe it is just because I haven't had my morning coffee yet....please explain.

Wedges only take a second to use, when in doubt, wedge it. The time to free one bar pinched by a setback will cost you the equivalent time of dozens of quick wedgings.

I carry my wedges in a belt pouch with a hatchet for driving them so there is never a question - I just jam one in and keep rolling.

 

[GASoline71]

Guess I don't understand the question... I think the OP is refering to the face cut as the wedge, and also wedging from the back' cut as well???

Are you refering to the Humboldt face cut? where the "wedge" is cut under the first "straight" cut?

Or are you referring to an "angled" back cut... (which is a no-no) to hold wedges?

Gary

 

[2dogs]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the question too. The face cut is made up of the first two cuts made on the tree. The first cut I call the gunning cut, it determines the direction the tree will fall. The second cut is the angle cut, it comes down from above or up from below to intersect with the gunning cut. When the angled cut is made from the top down it is generally called conventional and when made from the bottom up it is called a Humboldt. Once the wood is popped out from betwen these two cuts you have made a face. Sometimes the face is called a smile, or a pie or some other regional term. It is wedge shaped but I would recommend you not call it a wedge to avoid confusion with a plastic felling wedge.

The felling cut, or backcut is the third cut made in the tree and causes the tree to fall over. This cut is made flat (level) and is where a wedge is inserted to prevent the tree from setting back and to get the tree moving when needed.

Regional lingo and slang terms can really confuse the subject. The more precise you are in your terminology here on AS the easier it will be to get a valid answer to your question. Dent's book can help you out in that regard. I use "west coast" jargon that I know the guys I work with can understand. East of the Sierras, well you are on your own, but standard terms just makes communicating easier.

Now about your question, maybe you could restate it.

 

[bitzer]

Yeah it sounds like the wedge is the face cut and he may be talking about small diameter trees where there is not enough room to get a wedge in or a sloping backcut with a wedge in.


Like 2DOGS said, put in the face and make a horizontal back cut, sloping backcuts are no good.

 

[056kid]

Maybe it is just because I haven't had my morning coffee yet....please explain.

Wedges only take a second to use, when in doubt, wedge it. The time to free one bar pinched by a setback will cost you the equivalent time of dozens of quick wedgings.

I carry my wedges in a belt pouch with a hatchet for driving them so there is never a question - I just jam one in and keep rolling.

I dont get the question, i was punning with his use of "pro's". . .

 

[Walt41]

I believe the OP is referring to an "invert" or "bottom angle" face cut. I have seen them used but never used them, I cut using wedges, I even have some "minis" that I made from an old restaurant cutting board.

 

[tramp bushler]

O. K . Pierre I think I got ya .

No to the first ? the back cut is supposed to ALWAYS be flat and level .. NO SLOPEING BACK CUTS ..All they do is mess everything up ... Flat and level ...
. This is the problem with people useing funny terms ... A face is a face . Face forward. go the way the face is ... ... You can Notch here and Notch there notch , notch every where ...But you fall a tree or a whole forest by first putting the face in the base of any tree you are going to cut down ......
.
. There is everyone clear on this one word .. You face the way you want the tree to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. flat and level back cuts ............
..
. I know Hammer loves some of his funny words ...... swarps and stuff , but there are 2 principal parts of a stump . The face , and the back cut ..Back cuts are always flat and level !!!!

 

[GASoline71]

I believe the OP is referring to an "invert" or "bottom angle" face cut. I have seen them used but never used them, I cut using wedges, I even have some "minis" that I made from an old restaurant cutting board.

Are you talkin' about a Humboldt face cut?

Who's on first?

What's on second?

I don't know... THIRD BASE!!!

Gary

 

[Pierreg]

Greets.It wasn't my intention to confuse the issue.2dogs answered the ? I had. Simply asked if the cut on the side where the tree is going to fall,if it helps to have the second or face cut angling up to meet the first cut and give the tree incentive to fall.I guess this is called a Humbolt cut?I have had several"balanced" trees that needed one or two plastic wedges to start it over. I can see where the Humbolt style would be very practical.This isn't rocket science.The cuts are the same except for the uphill wedge. I always to make my backcut or final cut hoizontal too.I'm sure you can picture these cuts as you are the cutters. Thanks for the replies.

 

[joesawer]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the question too. The face cut is made up of the first two cuts made on the tree. The first cut I call the gunning cut, it determines the direction the tree will fall. The second cut is the angle cut, it comes down from above or up from below to intersect with the gunning cut. When the angled cut is made from the top down it is generally called conventional and when made from the bottom up it is called a Humboldt. Once the wood is popped out from betwen these two cuts you have made a face. Sometimes the face is called a smile, or a pie or some other regional term. It is wedge shaped but I would recommend you not call it a wedge to avoid confusion with a plastic felling wedge.

The felling cut, or backcut is the third cut made in the tree and causes the tree to fall over. This cut is made flat (level) and is where a wedge is inserted to prevent the tree from setting back and to get the tree moving when needed.

Regional lingo and slang terms can really confuse the subject. The more precise you are in your terminology here on AS the easier it will be to get a valid answer to your question. Dent's book can help you out in that regard. I use "west coast" jargon that I know the guys I work with can understand. East of the Sierras, well you are on your own, but standard terms just makes communicating easier.

Now about your question, maybe you could restate it.

Lol....... My back cuts are not always level. My stump might have a siswheel and cut up to swing the tree tree to the high side of the face.
But yes as a general rule the back cut should be level.

 

[tramp bushler]

It not just incentive , The face directs the directon of the fall ......Lets use the 45 degree angle as an example . first put in a flat level horizontal cut 1/3rd the diameter of the tree and on the side you want the tree to fall on .. Next make a 45 degree angle cut from either above or below the horizontal face cut . Make sure the two cuts meet perfectly and that one cut doesn't go past the other .. Knock that piece of wood out and that is the face of the tree ........ If you check the owners manuel of most all brands of chainsaws there is a diagram in them in a half a dozen different languages or more ,illustrating the felling of a mighty tree .....!!!
. HIP HIP HOORAY ......another stump to the consternation or the unmentionables ...

 

[2dogs]

Greets.It wasn't my intention to confuse the issue.2dogs answered the ? I had. Simply asked if the cut on the side where the tree is going to fall,if it helps to have the second or face cut angling up to meet the first cut and give the tree incentive to fall.I guess this is called a Humbolt cut?I have had several"balanced" trees that needed one or two plastic wedges to start it over. I can see where the Humbolt style would be very practical.This isn't rocket science.The cuts are the same except for the uphill wedge. I always to make my backcut or final cut hoizontal too.I'm sure you can picture these cuts as you are the cutters. Thanks for the replies.

Pierre the choice between a conventional face and a Humboldt face is not to make a balanced tree fall or to start toward the face. It is what you want the tree to do once it starts to fall. A conventional face will keep the tree attached to the stump via the hinge until it hits the ground. That means good control and a fast falling speed. The downside is likely more breakage. A Humboldt, esp with a snipe (A second face on the lip of the first face) will kick the butt to the ground early or make it jump, depending on what is needed, and reduce breakage. This is esp important in big conifers like redwood.

Actually this is rocket science. It is just that the very complicated basics were developed many years ago and we just copy their good work. Reducing breakage doesn't matter when you are cutting fire wood or just doing a removal. For professional fallers it is their bread and butter. A fire wooding homeowner does not need to make a 200'+ tree jump a ravine but a timber faller does. Heck, for me a quarter of the trees I fall really do not need precise directional control, just get it on the ground safely so I can drink a Red Bull and eat some steaming Brussell sprouts out of my thermos. The rest need to hit the ground in a precise location or my insurance cost will go out of sight. That is where the rocket science comes in.

Even if you never use anything but a conventional face there are many, many modifications that can be applied here too. Variations in holding wood, Dutchmans, boring, pulling, etc. As Hammer said there are times when your face or backcut may not be placed perfectly flat. You may have to leave little or no holding wood, that is cut through the hinge. Go to Bailey's website and get a couple books on the subject. They will help with your decision making process and maybe make your day more productive.

 

[tramp bushler]

Steaming Brussel sprouts ???????? I can see the Red Bull , but brussel sprouts in the timber . Thats decidedly different !
.
. Had I read your previous post I wouldn,t of needed to write mine .........

 

[bitzer]

Pierre the choice between a conventional face and a Humboldt face is not to make a balanced tree fall or to start toward the face. It is what you want the tree to do once it starts to fall. A conventional face will keep the tree attached to the stump via the hinge until it hits the ground. That means good control and a fast falling speed. The downside is likely more breakage. A Humboldt, esp with a snipe (A second face on the lip of the first face) will kick the butt to the ground early or make it jump, depending on what is needed, and reduce breakage. This is esp important in big conifers like redwood.

Actually this is rocket science. It is just that the very complicated basics were developed many years ago and we just copy their good work. Reducing breakage doesn't matter when you are cutting fire wood or just doing a removal. For professional fallers it is their bread and butter. A fire wooding homeowner does not need to make a 200'+ tree jump a ravine but a timber faller does. Heck, for me a quarter of the trees I fall really do not need precise directional control, just get it on the ground safely so I can drink a Red Bull and eat some steaming Brussell sprouts out of my thermos. The rest need to hit the ground in a precise location or my insurance cost will go out of sight. That is where the rocket science comes in.

Even if you never use anything but a conventional face there are many, many modifications that can be applied here too. Variations in holding wood, Dutchmans, boring, pulling, etc. As Hammer said there are times when your face or backcut may not be placed perfectly flat. You may have to leave little or no holding wood, that is cut through the hinge. Go to Bailey's website and get a couple books on the subject. They will help with your decision making process and maybe make your day more productive.

Great info for the newb!




My wife makes brussell sprouts from our garden with bacon. She cuts up the bacon, frys it, pours the grease off, and throws the sprouts in. Frickin awesome! My kids even love em!

 

[2dogs]

Steaming Brussel sprouts ???????? I can see the Red Bull , but brussel sprouts in the timber . Thats decidedly different !
.
. Had I read your previous post I wouldn,t of needed to write mine .........

Tramp I help on a couple of cattle ranches just north of town and one of the ranchers works for a sprout farmer. My family lives on sprouts and lots of other fresh veggies. All for free. Most of the sprouts I bring home are culls that are dumped in one of our pastures for the cattle. They help up milk production in the mamas and the calves love them too. The sprouts of today are not near as strong tasting as back in the seventies when I didn't like them. I served them last night to my daughter's friend. It was her first taste and she liked it. I say "it" because she only ate one but she said she was going to ask her mom to fix some.

We also get a ton of artichokes for free! Also leeks, lettuce, pumpkins and other nummies.

But yeah, I guess sprouts are not your normal timber lunch.

 

[2dogs]

Great info for the newb!




My wife makes brussell sprouts from our garden with bacon. She cuts up the bacon, frys it, pours the grease off, and throws the sprouts in. Frickin awesome! My kids even love em!

That is a fav of mine too. We buy apple smoked bacon by the flitch from Corralitos Market and Sausage Company. It is a short drive away.

 

[elliott]

The cuts are the same except for the uphill wedge.

You should refrain from using the word "wedge" to describe something dealing with the face cut. Especially if you're talking to people who don't know much about cutting; you could make them really confused. This forum has a bunch of guys here that are very knowledgeable and can help you learn correct terminology.