Fence line trees, pruning and general chat

[M.D. Vaden]

It would be good to see pics of nodes ... on trees not roses.

Also pics of prune jobs that went to nodes a few years down the track.

We have reference to nodes in our standards but it's aim is at juvenile trees in the formative stage (nursery).

I read about the nodes but am sceptical. I have seen lots of different trees cut in all sorts of places and have never noticed what I would call a proper heartwood attached nodal growth. All I see is stacks of advanticious epicormic shoots hanging off a stub that's decaying.

So Guy, where are the nodes on this pic? Pssst, you didn't leave all those stubs up there did ya?

Nice scabbard.

Is that a Silky scabbard?

 

[foodforests]

When you guys talk about nodes for correct heading cuts, I get a little confused.
Aren't correct heading cuts supposed to go back to a branch at least a third the diameter of the branch you are removing? A node on a mature branch is just an epicormic bud right?
Btw, As far as Jcarandas go, they do seem to be extremely resilient trees. In this case I would have to think that Eric has made a pretty good judgement, but of course, I am pretty new to all this, so my opinion isn't worth all that much.

 

[Ekka]

When you guys talk about nodes for correct heading cuts, I get a little confused.
Aren't correct heading cuts supposed to go back to a branch at least a third the diameter of the branch you are removing? A node on a mature branch is just an epicormic bud right?

Hey, you're not the only one bamboozled by these nodes.

Apparently they're not just epicormics and they dont grow like buggery but are bonded to the heartwood and grow naturally like a normal branch.

And if that's the case ... I aint ever seen one.

Gotta get some nodes pics, I've been carrying on about it for near on 2 years now. :help:

 

[arboralliance]

Um...

When you guys talk about nodes for correct heading cuts, I get a little confused.
Aren't correct heading cuts supposed to go back to a branch at least a third the diameter of the branch you are removing? A node on a mature branch is just an epicormic bud right?
Btw, As far as Jcarandas go, they do seem to be extremely resilient trees. In this case I would have to think that Eric has made a pretty good judgement, but of course, I am pretty new to all this, so my opinion isn't worth all that much.

I was gonna accuse ya of paying this bloke to wind Guy up Ek but after his comment about the Jac' I know he aint with you... (Did you even touch the Jac' in thu pic?)

 

[trevmcrev]

Hey, you're not the only one bamboozled by these nodes.

Apparently they're not just epicormics and they dont grow like buggery but are bonded to the heartwood and grow naturally like a normal branch.

And if that's the case ... I aint ever seen one.

Gotta get some nodes pics, I've been carrying on about it for near on 2 years now. :help:

Me too, i'd like to see a pic of something cut to a node rather than a branch, without it just being a lop job.

I agree reduction cuts should be made to something about 1/3 of the diameter of the removed part.

 

[treeseer]

Ekka you did a wonderful job clearing that roof and preserving a great deal of that tree. NOw go play golf with Jarrah.

Sorry if the article is too obscure w/o pics. It's about ENDO-, not EPI- cormic buds. More wednesday.

 

[l2edneck]

heres one fer ya:

ficus hangin way over the carport,I whacked it good.
View attachment 39524

opcorn:

 

[arboralliance]

I'm with you Guy...

Me too, i'd like to see a pic of something cut to a node rather than a branch, without it just being a lop job.

I agree reduction cuts should be made to something about 1/3 of the diameter of the removed part.

Guy, I agree with you as I base my principals on formative horticultural pruning and shaping of everything from fruit trees through to hedges and all in between where "drawing" wood (a small leading stem) is required to be left in so both dormant buds and grafted buds don't jettison from sap flow in spring and where dormant nodes are the only thing relatively that you have to cut back to and do so for the reason of promoting growth and direction of growth...

I see and hear all the time how "Arborits" are locked into the rule of thirds in trees without realising fractions of those thirds and the true nature of what is "commonly" coined "CODIT" and how we can and do and possibly should be able to manipulate this behavior within trees and all flora...

More "Arborists" should write their own rules or theorem specific to their area and individual micro-climates within these areas as all are unique beyond compare yet we all seem to be stuck in the rut of sheepishly following the leaders rather than complimenting these leading "scientists" of our profession and expanding on their work as they would insist we do...

HOWEVER, we do have different conditions here and Eucalypts are different (as you would have been told repeatedly by Eric) in there nature... Dormant buds are not as evident and in allot of cases not evident at all, not allot of research has been done on this either, I do know of a Phd. done on E. regnans relating to water flow and another on debris drop (A ton a year per tree!) but non on dormant buds/Endo/Epi-cormic growth/s in Eucalyptus species, I will be asking around though...(I have had extended "discusions" with a scientist that E. regnans will not as it cannot epicormic shoot yet i have seen them repeatedly do so in many different areas throughout Victoria, Urban, Sub-urban and Forest...)

It is interesting that allot of people refer to anything not cut back to one third as being a lop job, I wonder how many years of observing flora response to cuts these soothsayers have done to make such grand attacks/claims... Surely they can see, as an example, the picture above of you; with growth rates, within a few years this "stub" will have a nodal growth that is virtually the same dia. as the parent branch/stub therefore "loping" is not a relavent claim...

Look forward to more on this and other articles Guy, Eric...

Interesting pic of you there Guy, didnt know you and Eric were swapping "modeling" pics of each other, were you demonstrating a comfortable and safe work position to a class there Guy? Mmm, comfy...opcorn:

heres one fer ya:

ficus hangin way over the carport,I whacked it good.
Attachment 39524

l2edneck, can you explain your use of the antiquated stubb prunning technique, please...(Or were there some dormant nodes there you pruned back to? )

 

[treeseer]

I'm not a pro with ficus but I think they tolerate stubbing better than most...diameter the main issue there 12ed?

"were you demonstrating a comfortable and safe work position"

Yeah in fact it was comfortable enough and fairly safe/ 20 yrs of climbing willow oaks it's like ho hum.

i agree re 1/3 and other rules, and the need to More "Arborists" should write their own rules or theorem. we call them protocols here, but if you write em you gotta defend em well. no virtue in random guessing, no matter how educated.

. angle (aspect) is at least as important a criterion in target selection as diameter in most species imo.

 

[l2edneck]

l2edneck, can you explain your use of the antiquated stubb prunning technique, please...(Or were there some dormant nodes there you pruned back to? )

I dont like to stub, but the desired outcome will be a wall that can be trimmed by hedgers.Ficus are very tolerant.I could whack it at the ground,2 months later it will be 10 feet tall.That one was hangin way over and touchin the structure.Here to have anything touchin or even over hangin usually results in a pest problem.

I will post future pics as it grows back so we can specifically study the outcome.

Thx again guys.

 

[Ekka]

I dont like to stub, but the desired outcome will be a wall that can be trimmed by hedgers.

Tallyho ole chap, send ya resume' to the Brisbane City Council ... they need more blokes like you.

Tree whacking for scientific research is what it's all about

Aboralliance ... what a tree does in nature is also not tolerated in suburbia. Stubs, decay and resprouted growth is all perfectly normal and the trees way of responding ... but in urban settings it is not the desired outcome.

As in the example shown by me regrowth is not going to be accepted or tolerated ... in 12edneck's example the client is prepared to hedge the regrowth.

2 different results from 2 different methods but which one is right?

Be careful and think about your answer.

 

[treeseer]

Tallyho ole chap, send ya resume' to the Brisbane City Council ... they need more blokes like you. Tree whacking for scientific research is what it's all about

12ed's pruning was to standard--heading, even internodal, is acceptable for a specified objective--like building a green wall. I once ruined a holly hedge by making collar cuts--learned the hard way.

what a tree does in nature is also not tolerated in suburbia. Stubs, decay and resprouted growth is all perfectly normal and the trees way of responding ... but in urban settings it is not the desired outcome.

one size fits all-all owners of city trees think the same? NOT. Some have learned to appreciate tree value.

As in the example shown by me regrowth is not going to be accepted or tolerated ... in 12edneck's example the client is prepared to hedge the regrowth.
2 different results from 2 different methods but which one is right?
Be careful and think about your answer.

Easy breezy--they both are right! Eric, as eager as you may be to polarize all these issues into rightandwrong, it just does not work that way. A ficus is like a holly or some conifers, amenable to greenwallification, so 12ed's stubs may have been proper (I can't see enough to be sure). There is also the issue of hurricanes in his microclimate.

That tree you raised off the roof looked to be a lot woodier, so your collar cuts were proper on it. More proper yet may have been to sell the client on tree value and allow more overhang, smaller wounds, more symmetry. I know that is not easy or quick, but it will never be done as long as you focus on promoting your superiority as a tree cutter. Make the commitment to focus on promoting tree value instead.

If you grow it, they will come.

 

[arboralliance]

Wtf!

Thanks Guy but It still appears you've misundertood my post, all good, hope your well...

 

[Ekka]

Easy breezy--they both are right!

Then when a customer asks for their tree to be topped to make it bushier that is right too?

Have you read this?

http://www.plantamnesty.org/shearmadness.htm

 

[arboralliance]

Oh dear...

Then when a customer asks for their tree to be topped to make it bushier that is right too?

Have you read this?

http://www.plantamnesty.org/shearmadness.htm

Guy has completely lost me here Eric... And you are right with this comment...And another excellent article/site in that link Eric...

 

[treeseer]

Ok sorry Jarrah I deleted your name that wasa there incorrectly.

I originally wrote "shearing", then substituted "greenwallification", because constant shearing with no thinning usually leads to problems in most plants. Yeah I know plantamnesty's work and promote it, most recently in The Case of the Waning Waxmyrtles. You saw that, right?

"Then when a customer asks for their tree to be topped to make it bushier that is right too?"

Topping is never right, but severe reduction sometimes is, on Leylands, hollies, ficus, etc. 12ed, it'd be nice to have closeups of that wound response. Ekka, to quote Bob Dylan, if you cannot bring good news (along with the bad), then don't bring any.

 

[Ekka]

I originally wrote "shearing", then substituted "greenwallification", because constant shearing with no thinning usually leads to problems in most plants. Yeah I know plantamnesty's work and promote it, most recently in The Case of the Waning Waxmyrtles. You saw that, right?

"Then when a customer asks for their tree to be topped to make it bushier that is right too?"

Topping is never right, but severe reduction sometimes is, on Leylands, hollies, ficus, etc. 12ed, it'd be nice to have closeups of that wound response. Ekka, to quote Bob Dylan, if you cannot bring good news (along with the bad), then don't bring any.

I didn't know you wrote that, well done.

Guy this thread has over 1000 views, people are reading this and wonder, "yeah, should I just cut it ... where and why?"

Dont take it personally or anything, afterall I'm the one who goes right out there putting pics and vids of my jobs up all the time, but curious minds asks questions.

I dont do hedges much, very rare. In fact many aren't doing to well in this drought. The other day I had to whack an overgrown duranta hedge in half ... but we are only talking a 6' hedge to 3' and about half the width.

I dont treat or consider hedges in the same field as trees. Trees are woody plants that if they fail will cause damage or hurt you. A hedge on the other hand ... well, not as though much will happen if it fails. But I suppose in saying that I wouldn't be calling a Leylandi 50' high screen a shrub hedge either.

I suppose if that was a pine tree over the fence you'd have a big fat zero chance of a green wall too. Different trees have different growth and decay capabilities.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

I had a nut job a few weeks call me out and ask me to bid/quote for 3 mature oaks 300 years+ old ,been their longer than the house and this joker,he wanted everything overhanging his property cut back to the fence line,I don't think so I told him,I also told if you don't like trees you shouldn't have bought the place..

Overhere you CAN cut branches and roots etc back to the fence line ,but whatever you do must not be detrimental to the trees health

 

[Ekka]

Hey Rolla

See we just dont have that here, the whole flamin place was only settled 220 years ago, but it would be a crying shame to cut that oak.

Sad part is some-one probably did cut it.

Here's the other thing, how do measure or guage "detrimental" ???

Maybe it's protected and you need permission to cut it?

I read somewhere that in USA, perhaps Florida you need permission to remove any limbs greater than 4" in dia.

Ekka, to quote Bob Dylan, if you cannot bring good news (along with the bad), then don't bring any.

I just brought along from todays tours driving between jobs this picture of a beautiful Leopard tree, do you like it. It's the big one behind the 2 palms, sheez a ripper.

 

[treeseer]

Eric that is a beauty, though it looks like the utility will soon be wahcking one side to clear the wires. If the owner knows they are coming and wants the best job possible, maybe they would hire you to prune it in advance.