I’m reading The Tree Climber’s Companion and had a question that I can’t quite figure out from the text. If you are using a dynamic climbing system such as a split tail, can you use a figure 8 to descend? Intuitively I would think so since you are only gaining a mechanical advantage by using the split tail setup. You’d run through twice the amount of rope to go the same distance as you would if you were using the SRT method. Am I missing something as to why a figure 8 wouldn’t work in this setup?
Figure 8 question.
- Thread starter jsd176
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You can switch from DRT to figure 8 for decent but why bother, unless you really just want to burn down out of the tree and safe your split tail.
tree md
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Well, you wouldn't want to use a figure 8 with a split tail IMO. I mean you could back up your figure 8 with a prussic if you wanted to but that would be kind of redundant. The figure 8 can be used on a doubled rope but it's not going to run as smooth as it will on a single line. As for myself and any other climber I have worked with, the figure 8 is used for a quick descent only. Like when you are just setting a line in a tree. The reason that most don't use a figure 8 to work on is you have to tie it off to lock it. Whereas with a friction hitch all you have to do is let go of the knot and it will self belay. A friction hitch is much better suited for working aloft.
:agree2:
Yeah what he said... thats what I was referring to but just to lazy to type it all out.
tree md
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To tell the truth, I don't even keep a figure 8 on my saddle anymore. I used to when I climbed with a traditional closed system. It was convenient sometimes back then when I needed to burn down on a single line and it was a good idea to keep one handy in case I ran into bees or something where I might need to beat a hasty retreat out of the tree. The beauty of the split tail/eye to eye is that you can tie in and be ready to descend in the blink of an eye. My split tail pretty much always stays tied on my line. I clip it to my saddle when I ascend and use it as a secondary lanyard when I need to (spur climbing). If I ever need to beat a hasty retreat it's just a matter of clipping in and descending. It would take more time than it's worth to change out to a figure 8.
tree md
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Who are you asking?
Treecutr
ArboristSite Operative
Blake's, I like it best.
tree md
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So... What are you climbing on jeffe??? :hmm3grin2orange:
:hmm3grin2orange:
Fireaxman
ArboristSite Guru
Yes. That's what I want to do. Take a ride, and save the split tail. It doesn't take but a few seconds to put the 8 on, I dont even take the split tail off. Just put the 8 on below the split tail, slack off on it, hold slack in the split tail with my left hand, hold tension (but not much) on the 8 with my right hand.Caution: Dont burn yourself on the 8. It can get pretty hot.
That is what I do too (almost, I use a Pirana instead of a traditional 8). I feel leaving that split tail on there is essential. If you let go of a Figure 8, you will drop like a rock (I know...never intend to, but hitting your head, getting swarmed by bees, having a squirrel jump out of a hole, etc... are all unpredictable). The split tail will save your life if you let go of everything.
Caution: Dont burn yourself on the 8. It can get pretty hot.
There are other decenders on the market that will lock if you let go, but they are all bulkier and more expensive than an 8.
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Sorry I was referring to Tree_Md reference to tieing a prussic above a figure-8, yea I think that is redundant. Seems that if you're trying to burn down a rope on a 8, the prussic would be a hindrance requiring more attention to the lower devices than what is coming up at you really fast (the ground) 
tree md
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Sorry I was referring to Tree_Md reference to tieing a prussic above a figure-8, yea I think that is redundant. Seems that if you're trying to burn down a rope on a 8, the prussic would be a hindrance requiring more attention to the lower devices than what is coming up at you really fast (the ground)
Most tree texts I have read advocate backing up your figure 8 with a prussic. However, most other climbing disciplines (caving, mountaineering) advise to just use a figure 8 with no prussic for the exact reason you mentioned. The book On Rope advises against it. I have tried it both ways. I have backed mine up with a prussic while just playing around. It works but if your going to tie a prussic anyway why even use a figure 8. Like I said earlier, the only time I used my figure 8 was to burn down on a single line. If I am working I am just going to use my friction hitch and not take the time to fool with a redundant figure 8.
Either the Sherrill or Wesspur catalog had a illustrated diagram on backing up your figure 8 with a prussic, can't remember which, maybe both and I'm not sure if they still illustrate it in the newer catalogs. The TCC may have an illustration as well. I can't remember off hand. All it was was a regular 6 coil prussic tied above your figure 8 and clipped into the same biner as your 8.
If you have somebody to belay from the bottom, yeah, no reason to have the friction knot.
outofmytree
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Figure 8 backed up with a prussik is what is taught here as a means of rapid descent. Frankly I do not know any climber that regularly uses an 8 to descend on DRT unless you are over 30 metres and coming straight down. Even Beeline will be heat damaged if you scream down from that height. I find the 8 locks up frequently and twists the heck out of my lifeline too. I almost always descend on my Schwabisch prussik tied in beeline. I just don't come down super fast and accept that I may retire my prussik once every 3 months instead of once every 6. At $10 per prussik it doesnt owe me anything after 3 months.
treeslayer
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IMHO, the whole idea about the prussik above the Figure-8 would be so you could stop, and take your hands off the rope. otherwise way too complicated for a simple descent.
