Fire him or make him pay then fire him...

[Rftreeman]

Ground man chipped a limb that he had drug across my gear (after being told many times about this) and it snagged a lanyard and pulled it through the chipper, it was one of the old adjustable styles with a steel snap on each end I was using for a saw lanyard and it ruined the blades, cutter bar and the piece that the cutter bar bolts to, it will have to be removed, welded and machined back to it's original shape, the drum itself will need some work also, total cost will probably be around $400 to $600 depending on machine work not to mention lost work due to the fact that my chuck and duck is down for a week. That's a big lost for a small timer like me.

He feels that it wasn't his fault but I feel that it was, that limb should have never been chipped because if he had been paying attention to the chips piling up on the ground because the truck was full and falling out it would have not went through there and I would have had time to stop him...

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Ground man chipped a limb that he had drug across my gear (after being told many times about this) and it snagged a lanyard and pulled it through the chipper, it was one of the old adjustable styles with a steel snap on each end I was using for a saw lanyard and it ruined the blades, cutter bar and the piece that the cutter bar bolts to, it will have to be removed, welded and machined back to it's original shape, the drum itself will need some work also, total cost will probably be around $400 to $600 depending on machine work not to mention lost work due to the fact that my chuck and duck is down for a week. That's a big lost for a small timer like me.

He feels that it wasn't his fault but I feel that it was, that limb should have never been chipped because if he had been paying attention to the chips piling up on the ground because the truck was full and falling out it would have not went through there and I would have had time to stop him...

First thing, things happen.
You have to weigh up how good this guys is and how important he is to your business. Never get rid of staff if there isnt a better option.
I tell my guys that I will pay for the first screw up, but if the same thing happens again through their lack of care, it will be their bill. I havent had to follow that up.....yet.

 

[ozzy42]

I kind of agree with TMP.
I do understand it is quite a hit to the wallet,but the groundie will be taking a hit also with no work for a week.That may be enough to smarten him up some.
If he's a good employee that just made a major screw-up,go with the ultimatum"Next thing that goes thru the chipper without bark on it is coming out of your wallet or your ass,,,, or both."

Hope you get everything up and runnin again real soon.

 

[flushcut]

Fire him and leave it at that.

 

[Toddppm]

Never get rid of staff if there isnt a better option.
.

Sometimes the better option is not having that person around even if it means working by yourself. It sucks to work with somebody you know you're going to get rid of and have to suffer every day until you do.

 

[TreeAce]

:msp_ohmy:I think this can be a tough call. I would want to know...how long was that lanyard laying there? Did he drag several branches over it or did you toss it there while his back was turned and he never really knew it was there. OR...he saw it plain as day and was to lazy to move it and/or thought its your lanyard U fckn move it . Both of these last two options are unacceptable. All I am saying is make sure you look at the whole picture of how it REALLY happened. But if he has been warned about it before then I would think it doesnt look good for Mr. Groundie. Which reminds me of a "tree guy saying"...

 

[stumpjumper83]

i think it depends alot on the attitude of the gound man. If he is a guy that works as hard as he can for you, no matter the weather, is always looking for something to do. A hard working gorund man is hard to find, and while he did a pretty good screw up, everyone screws up. I'd explain that due to the chipper being damaged, there will be no work till its fixed, then while its in the shop I'd go to work cutting & trimming jobs that the owners are willing to clean up and leave the groundy at home.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

why didn't you (or him) move the lanyard if you saw it as a potential problem?
he may have easily seen it as "your" gear in "his" work area and "if he's (being you) worried about it, why doesn't he move it" attitude. Did you neck in his workspace to make him pull/walk longer distances? etc
He may have pulled it on purpose to make a point to you, but really it's all based on your point of view.

IMHO if he's even marginally worth keeping, you need to be discussing this with him, not the internet. Only you were there and know the entire story, from your point of view, and he knows it from his.

 

[imagineero]

groundies in aus are hard to come by, and generally get paid less than any other types of labourers. Unskilled construction labour is often paying $25~$30/hour and isnt really that tough, tree ground work is often paying less than $20/hour and has the added bonus of cutting.scratching yourself up on a daily basis.

People expect groundies to come in with industry experience (5yrs+), qualifications, knowledge of how to run a chipper, a saw, drag brush, get filthy, get abused, and have a 6th sense of every little nuance the climber never articulates but expects to be done in a certain way, plus cover the cost of their own PPE and anything they damage.

For myself as a business owner, I cover the full cost of my business, and I consider all the mistakes to be mine. If you were working at a supermarket and something broke, would you expect them to take it out of your pay? no way. But tree workers are often paid about the same.

I tend to hire younger and less experienced guys trying to break into the industry. I try to hang on to them for a year or so, pay to put them through courses, train them up, then let them go. Thats why I can get them for cheap(ish). On bigger jobs I sub in extra climbers, chipper operators, and groundies but pay considerably more. If I was trying to hire in experienced qualified guys at low rates, then I wouldn't be surprised to find myself with pot heads, alcoholics and bums.

What are you doing throwing your strap on the ground? Look after your own gear, don't be a schmuck and expect others to do it for you.

Shaun

 

[jefflovstrom]

At least being a smaller outfit, you can take it out of his pay. We cannot do that here.
Jeff

 

[DDM]

A couple of yrs ago I had a great climber he was fast efficient and never caused and damage to the customers property always on time never layed out. Only issue was in the 14 months he worked for me he dropped 6 saws 5 of which were ms200's 1 was a 036.... I never made him pay for any of them just kept repairing broken chain brakes fuel tanks ect the 036 was toast. The way i looked at it even though the damaged saws he was still making me money so its all in how much value the employee has to you... I had another that kept running rakes thru the old chuck n duck. after the 2 i got rid of him.... Had another that pulled out in front on someone in my new F350 and totaled it.... fired him.... Another that flipped my new S300 after i told him not to do what he was doing. he still works for me... Its all in how you value that individual.

 

[Rftreeman]

It was lying on top of my saddle beside the tree in plain view out of the way with other gear, it wasn't like it was tangled in the brush. he drug the limb over top of all this stuff because he was to damn lazy to go around the other side of the tree, I had been in the tree and was going back up so my rope and all was there but the lanyard is all that got snagged, I was using it as a saw lanyard and had taken it off to use the saw on the ground and I noticed that the truck was over flowing and he was steady shoving brush in so I went to shut the chipper off and next thing I know I see him throwing the limb in even after the chipper was slowing down and it was to late....

I really don't need this guy and was just using him trying to help him out. He's done a few other things but never cost me money like this, I'm gonna just eat the cost and explain to him that I can't have him around because he will end up getting hurt or killed due to his inability to PAY ATTENTION to his surroundings......

 

[Rftreeman]

What are you doing throwing your strap on the ground? Look after your own gear, don't be a schmuck and expect others to do it for you.

Shaun

I'm not being a schmuck but I do expect people to pay attention to what they are doing especially after they have been told about such things on several occasions.....it's not like there were never any instructions given...


you just can't fix stupid.........

 

[Nailsbeats]

I'm gonna just eat the cost and explain to him that I can't have him around because he will end up getting hurt or killed due to his inability to PAY ATTENTION to his surroundings......

That's just it right there RF. He will end up costing you a lot more when he hurts himself or makes a big mistake (have seen it played out time and again, never fails) because his root issue is his inabbility to pay attention to his surroundings.

Periferal sence should be a natural instinct of a treeworker and not have to be reinforced. He is a liability with no future as a treeworker and his actions have proven it, get rid of him pronto.

 

[ducaticorse]

Everybody above have made good points. I'd be so lucky if all my guys did was put a lanyard through one of my chippers. Not only is it illegal in most circumstances to make an employee pay for damaged equipment while on the job here in MA, but #### happens sometimes. I agree with a poster above that you have to weigh the situation out. IE; is the employees worth his salt, reprimand him on paper, and let him continue to work. If he is not, than reprimand and let him go.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I pay base wage plus a bonus. It is true that you can't take away wages to pay for something that the employee damaged, but you sure can take away the bonus.

I had a young guy working for me last summer that seemed to be really on the ball. I even started teaching him some climbing. The last week before he headed off to college he went stupid on me. Broke the jack on the front of the big trailer, broke out the bottom of my double wheeled wheelbarrow, killed the battery in the truck by leaving the interior light on overnight, failed to show up for the last day of cleanup on a big job because he needed to stay home to pack. He got his base pay, but lost about $300 in bonus pay.

In the past, I have made mistakes on the job, but I either bought the required parts and fixed it myself or had the boss withhold money from my checks to cover it. I always felt I should pay for my screwups.

Rick

 

[ckliff]

Check the law in your state.

Can my employer deduct from my wages to cover cash drawer shortages or damaged equipment?

No.



Can an employer fine an employee and take it out of his or her paycheck?

No.



back to top

The above is from faqs at the Kansas Dept Labor website. I don't have the exact statute to quote, but it is illegal here to charge an employee for screw-ups. You are the boss, it is all your responsibility ultimately.

This has been a long-standing grudge of mine with our industry.

 

[ducaticorse]

Can my employer deduct from my wages to cover cash drawer shortages or damaged equipment?

No.



Can an employer fine an employee and take it out of his or her paycheck?

No.



back to top

The above is from faqs at the Kansas Dept Labor website. I don't have the exact statute to quote, but it is illegal here to charge an employee for screw-ups. You are the boss, it is all your responsibility ultimately.

This has been a long-standing grudge of mine with our industry.

As previously stated, it's illegal here in MA too. If you get caught doing it, all I can say is DAMN.

 

[Cutler tree]

If it comes down to safety then let him go. Would you rather have this guy mad at you now or have to call his family and tell them he's not coming home.I'd sleep on it and make sure I wasn't just mad at him but if he really is a hazard he really needs to go.

 

[Ax-man]

Just be thankfull that it was only 400 to 600 bucks on a chuck and duck. I know it hurts in the pocketbook but it could have be much worse. That chipper could have kicked some sharpnel out of the chute and hurt someone. Things like this are going to happen when you have people working for you.

I would fire the guy and learn from this to watch your gear like a hawk and safeguard it more in the future.

I had a guy like that once. He was accident prone. He finally got hurt on my dime. Lost part of his big toe to a stump grinder. I won't go into details as to how it happened.

Just so you don't feel so bad I will tell you this little story. Tree guy buys a relatively new self feeding chipper. Employee didn't really want to work that day .He figures out a way to get out of work for the day. He sabatoges the new chipper by running a driveshaft that was lying nearby through it and virtually destroys the chipper. True story because I saw the chipper up at the dealer and had to ask what the heck went through it to cause so much damage. It is not unusual to see torn up machines up at the dealer especially from those guys that do landclearing but this one was a basket case. It cost almost as much to fix it as what he paid for the chipper. Try explaining that one to your banker.

He did fire the guy . I would have too.