Co-worker caught me re-briefing a change in plans mid-burnout today.
Fire
- Thread starter Gologit
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Meadow restoration burn?
cwebefree
ArboristSite Member
SlowP
Just because we're weird around here and think those a state west....well lets just say the joke is that it's always windy here in New Mexico because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
But, to the points, the last crews I ran down the Gila way was ten year prior to cutting for pulp.
Stone Container liked to cut at 12"DBH, or a little smaller. You can make jokes about lame fellers, I won't argue.
Thinning being on a bit of a slower track from prior disturbance in our drier regions.
Up in the Northwest regrowth tends to want to be tickled sooner as it grows so much faster, as you've observed.
As to deficit expenditure, from treasury to the timber industry, I was speaking broadly. Of course there had to be areas that got close to positive.
The Northwest being the prime example.
Still, to think of little sales I had in 80's, up here in the Pecos, where I was paying $32 the thousand, for a few hundred thousand and I was the only little guy working the hills (in my district) under contract, after roads were built, cruising and the whole nine yards, a timber staff of about 3 and 6, fulltime and seasonal, there sure wasn't anyway the Federales could do anything but hemorrhage greenfrogskins.
A bit during my time, and quite a bit before it, Duke City did have a mill and bought some timber, still, it was all rather piddly in comparison to what you guys had going.
This same model was prevalent throughout the Rockies.
Also important to remember that out in the Northwest there are huge amounts of private, Weyerhauser type, forests in comparison to what's out in the Rockies where there's significantly more federal land, in comparison.
My main point in all the bean counting is that, by my way of looking at things, we can continue to spend massive amounts of cash attempting to suppress what can no longer be suppressed, with only a few jobs going to our brave smoke eaters.
Or we could put some smarter money into restorative forestry and have a whole lot more folks working in the hills.
Should be needless to mention that'd be an investment that won't be obvious right away, but in the long run we have the opportunity to actually have some forests where we will, no doubt, have conflagration, if we don't do some treatments.
On this I'm a bit of a zealot, I must admit, after going back down to the Gila this spring and seeing where the Whitewater Baldy Complex finally laid itself down.
You could still see the blue Rudd paint on the unit boundary of my thinning contract on one side of the Bear Wallow road, 10-20% , mortality in there, the other side of road-100%. Good ol' drop & lop, nothing fancy no masticators or chippers. Stone Container closed up shop right after that work, so, in an ironic twist, what was intended to be Pre commercial became restorative forestry/effective fuels reduction.
.
Just because we're weird around here and think those a state west....well lets just say the joke is that it's always windy here in New Mexico because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
But, to the points, the last crews I ran down the Gila way was ten year prior to cutting for pulp.
Stone Container liked to cut at 12"DBH, or a little smaller. You can make jokes about lame fellers, I won't argue.
Thinning being on a bit of a slower track from prior disturbance in our drier regions.
Up in the Northwest regrowth tends to want to be tickled sooner as it grows so much faster, as you've observed.
As to deficit expenditure, from treasury to the timber industry, I was speaking broadly. Of course there had to be areas that got close to positive.
The Northwest being the prime example.
Still, to think of little sales I had in 80's, up here in the Pecos, where I was paying $32 the thousand, for a few hundred thousand and I was the only little guy working the hills (in my district) under contract, after roads were built, cruising and the whole nine yards, a timber staff of about 3 and 6, fulltime and seasonal, there sure wasn't anyway the Federales could do anything but hemorrhage greenfrogskins.
A bit during my time, and quite a bit before it, Duke City did have a mill and bought some timber, still, it was all rather piddly in comparison to what you guys had going.
This same model was prevalent throughout the Rockies.
Also important to remember that out in the Northwest there are huge amounts of private, Weyerhauser type, forests in comparison to what's out in the Rockies where there's significantly more federal land, in comparison.
My main point in all the bean counting is that, by my way of looking at things, we can continue to spend massive amounts of cash attempting to suppress what can no longer be suppressed, with only a few jobs going to our brave smoke eaters.
Or we could put some smarter money into restorative forestry and have a whole lot more folks working in the hills.
Should be needless to mention that'd be an investment that won't be obvious right away, but in the long run we have the opportunity to actually have some forests where we will, no doubt, have conflagration, if we don't do some treatments.
On this I'm a bit of a zealot, I must admit, after going back down to the Gila this spring and seeing where the Whitewater Baldy Complex finally laid itself down.
You could still see the blue Rudd paint on the unit boundary of my thinning contract on one side of the Bear Wallow road, 10-20% , mortality in there, the other side of road-100%. Good ol' drop & lop, nothing fancy no masticators or chippers. Stone Container closed up shop right after that work, so, in an ironic twist, what was intended to be Pre commercial became restorative forestry/effective fuels reduction.
.
I worked a couple years in Arizona west of Showlow. We offered large trees in timber sales and then also included pulp sized wood down to 4 inches. That was before Stone went to 100% recycle. We did not have a ten year rotation. The pine grew well, but not that well. I left, but the Rodeo Chewhatever fire fried the left untouched (some owl habitat) stands and then laid down in the logged units according to one of my forester friends.
We had a small fire that burned up to the highway while I was working there. We put it up for salvage. The SW Center for Biological Diversity tried to stop the salvage. They had read papers and were sure that not enough snags would be left. We offered to show them what we'd done, they did not go because they couldn't afford the gas to get there and were sure that not enough snags were left.
After the salvage was complete, we had motorists stopping in asking when that area was going to be salvaged.
We had a small fire that burned up to the highway while I was working there. We put it up for salvage. The SW Center for Biological Diversity tried to stop the salvage. They had read papers and were sure that not enough snags would be left. We offered to show them what we'd done, they did not go because they couldn't afford the gas to get there and were sure that not enough snags were left.
After the salvage was complete, we had motorists stopping in asking when that area was going to be salvaged.
cwebefree
ArboristSite Member
So sorry, no intent to imply a 10 year rotation, as in they cut it, we thin it they cut it again in in ten years.
But that, as per my inspector, the intent was to cut ten years after we thinned it.
I'm not going to defend the veracity or sanity of that prescription, that's just what this lonely old thinner was made to understand.
What is now the Center for Biological Diversity has come a long way.
They even jumped on board with the 4FRI project.
Unfortunately the FS has done a poor job of contracting and gave it to a fly by night (now crashed) outfit, probably because an old supervisor signed on to it.
Up In Smoke - Is the US Forest Service killing the last best chance to save the Southwest?s forests?
(In that article that guy Bryan Bird is my nemesis No. 1, Schulke, like I said, has come a long way)
As a guy that's worked salvage, North Rim, post Bridger Jump Up in particular, I'm a little ambivalent.
Lots of murdered saws from ash & grit for lousy product. Heck, if I wanted to kill saws like that I'd still be cursing Stihls on the line.
I was also unimpressed with some of the operations I saw going on down the Gila this spring.
I did not work the salvage up my way after the Viveash burn in my back yard but I will say that, as an avid elk hunter, that those areas that were run over up there were much slower in coming back. It was a stand replacement Spruce/Fir thing where they salvaged. The aspens popped up almost immediately, accepting for thos areas that had skidders tearing it up.
Just a hunter's perspective.
THe Jaroso that just burned through my other hunting grounds will be an interesting comparison, that was up in the wilderness area, the poor jumpers they threw on that had enough time to say "Hells Bells" and call for evac. way too much deadfall, thicker than thieves in DC. Same deal as to stand replacement Spruce/Fir but with an estimate of significant fire going back hundreds of years.
I'm headed up that way this fall for the elk and to observe over the next few years as to regrowth. Really quite interested in how the aspen will react, if blight will hit.
One thing's certain, it should be some damn good hunting up there soon.
But that, as per my inspector, the intent was to cut ten years after we thinned it.
I'm not going to defend the veracity or sanity of that prescription, that's just what this lonely old thinner was made to understand.
What is now the Center for Biological Diversity has come a long way.
They even jumped on board with the 4FRI project.
Unfortunately the FS has done a poor job of contracting and gave it to a fly by night (now crashed) outfit, probably because an old supervisor signed on to it.
Up In Smoke - Is the US Forest Service killing the last best chance to save the Southwest?s forests?
(In that article that guy Bryan Bird is my nemesis No. 1, Schulke, like I said, has come a long way)
As a guy that's worked salvage, North Rim, post Bridger Jump Up in particular, I'm a little ambivalent.
Lots of murdered saws from ash & grit for lousy product. Heck, if I wanted to kill saws like that I'd still be cursing Stihls on the line.
I was also unimpressed with some of the operations I saw going on down the Gila this spring.
I did not work the salvage up my way after the Viveash burn in my back yard but I will say that, as an avid elk hunter, that those areas that were run over up there were much slower in coming back. It was a stand replacement Spruce/Fir thing where they salvaged. The aspens popped up almost immediately, accepting for thos areas that had skidders tearing it up.
Just a hunter's perspective.
THe Jaroso that just burned through my other hunting grounds will be an interesting comparison, that was up in the wilderness area, the poor jumpers they threw on that had enough time to say "Hells Bells" and call for evac. way too much deadfall, thicker than thieves in DC. Same deal as to stand replacement Spruce/Fir but with an estimate of significant fire going back hundreds of years.
I'm headed up that way this fall for the elk and to observe over the next few years as to regrowth. Really quite interested in how the aspen will react, if blight will hit.
One thing's certain, it should be some damn good hunting up there soon.
Naw, one of the firing ranges. This one is a once-a-year event as opposed to a ten-times-a-year like some of them or every 3 years like others. One good thing about having "Groundhog Day" fires is that there is always a chance to improve on past deficiencies. One thing I learned from this one is that I can have soldiers ordered out for their own safety. It's not written anywhere that we have that ability, but we do. There are channels, of course, but from a "bystander control" perspective, that's a good tool to have. I can think of several past fires where it would have been very handy to use.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Co-worker caught me re-briefing a change in plans mid-burnout today.
Dang! I didn't know you is a girl.
... I got nothing
RandyMac
Stiff Member
we knew that
Don't know what all the stump pictures are about.
Scene from Oregon's largest, toughest cluster of wildfires: Tree skeletons and choking smoke | OregonLive.com
Scene from Oregon's largest, toughest cluster of wildfires: Tree skeletons and choking smoke | OregonLive.com
My girlfriend shipped out to Redding, CA with the Northern Colorado crew on Wednesday to pre-position. I'm in the the on-boarding process with one department and just got promoted to full-time at another so I'm stuck at home on the Front Range cleaning up storm damage. Sorry the picture is low quality... new saw, not new phone.
View attachment 308631
View attachment 308631
Oh, look, red flag warnings pretty much everywhere. Didn't see that coming.
Yes. We had pretty good fireworks last night and very little rain. It looked to be east of here.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
real close to my place, saw the smoke this afternoon coming back from the show down in cottagegrove. got it under control . wind was blowing good right toward my place.Crews from all over Western Oregon respond to fire in Dallas | Local & Regional | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
7 new fires from strikes in my neck oh dah woods.
Cody (Tarzan) got dispatched out a couple days ago on the Nimrod fire.
I might get to go this year yet? Fire season ain't over.
Cody (Tarzan) got dispatched out a couple days ago on the Nimrod fire.
I might get to go this year yet? Fire season ain't over.
We've been getting just enough rain to give the illusion of safety. Giving Joe homeowner the ideat to burn all his trash and yard debris, however if its not raining its still bone dry by noon. There was a fire out on the tulalip res, not sure if they got it out yet.
I wish there was a way to make everybody understand that. NWS has a "DRYING NORTHERLY BREEZES EXPECTED THROUGH THE PUGET SOUND LOWLANDS ON TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING" on the fire-weather reports. We're never truly out of the woods until we've had at least a couple days of full-on fall monsoon rain to soak the 1000-hour fuels beyond where they can dry out again. That usually happens around the first of October.
paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
well went to the fire , and the irony of it is that it started at the old bethell logging home and shops , it is now owned by some out of staters
that are turning the property in to a winery and b&b. all moped up now.
