MS460WOODCHUCK
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And built quite a bit better.
Firewood Showdown: MAC 10-10 A vs. STIHL MS290
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And built quite a bit better.
MS460WOODCHUCK
Addicted to ArboristSite
The yellow saw done turned green...funny how that worked. I think ya took me the wrong way, I was not bashing your saw before it seemed to be a good runner.
I've owned a 8500 just like yours except my saw had the half wrap with the black clutch cover that said professional. I ran a 28'' and 36'' 3/8 on it and would'nt suggest .404 but then again you are cutting pine so it may pull it fine, I know the oiler will handle its job. I also have had 4 5200s, 2-5400s, s6000 and a pp655bp (I won't even get started on my smaller cc poulans) These saws are very good running saws for sure...but I hope you were not planning on surprising me.
I ran .404 32'' on one of my 5400s which ran a good bit better than my 8500. When I got my 460 my buddy and I went cutting my 460 was running a 28'' bar and my 8500 was running a 28'' also in some hardwood logs which were shag hickory and white oak. We would switch saws and I would out run him with either the 460 or 8500. May have been different with longer bars.
Oh yea I ran 36'' full comp .404 on my s6000 also. It had no problem pulling it either but was stronger than the 8500 by a large margin...85cc and 100cc is should be though.
homelitejim
Full of Scrap
No problems. There is nothing but soft pine out here and the 8500 has enough torque to handle .404 on a 36 inch bar. None of my 8500's had clutch covers on them, that ugly repainted green thing came off a 4200 and I drilled out the bar stud holes, had to do the same thing for my other 8500. I am still waiting to get some covers for the 5400 so I can see how well it performs. I will have to say the 8500 is the only direct drive saw I have ever had back out of the cut when pinched.
I also ran some timed cuts with my 441 and SP81 and with 24 inch bars in the same 24 inch wood the 441 is faster, now a longer bar in thicker wood and I think it will be a different story.
I like the new saws as much as I like the old saws, I just prefer bigger saws to smaller saws, but I won't say no to any saw.
I felt the same way when I got my PM700 and SP-81. That last early 10-10A that I got going a while ago impressed the heck outa me however. Hoss is on to something. That little sucker was much stronger than the PM10-10 I had earlier (and that saw was also no slouch). I have renewed interest in the 10-10. Keep 'em bare bones, with the small clutch cover and a 16-18" bar so they're not so heavy for the displacement. A good loop of LGX makes 'em sing. I'll soon have another 10-10 (or 2-10 or 3-10) and will keep it bare bones, with a shorter bar and a good fresh loop of LGX. It'll have a place of honor next to my 70cc and 82cc 10-series Macs. It won't get ran as much as the 70cc saws however.....
I've ran 029/290 saws, and they sure didn't feel 3 pounds lighter than a bare bones 10-10. Now if you put the heavy later 'muffler guard' chainbrake type clutch cover and a later can muffler on the 10-10, then I can see it. The 029/290 Stihls I've ran were certainly not any stronger than a good running 10-10 either. No damn way those particular Stihl's are running over 9K in the cut. Put a tach to yours while it's loaded down in the cut if you still believe the google specs. The manufacturer's weight and power output specs are NEVER to be trusted.
Also, a McCulloch 7-10A doesn't weigh any more than (or look any different than) a 10-10. That's a STRONG 70cc saw. I'd put my PM700 or 7-10A (which are both bone stock, with no porting or muffler mods) against any stock 029-thru-MS390 Stihl. Put 24-28" bars and fresh chains on both contenders and stick 'em in big wood.....
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said no muffler mods as the mac didn’t have the EPA to kill power. That is big handy cap for ALL new saws made in the USA fare as power go’s. just look at a ms 290 muffler and the 2 little orifices well the German muffler has 4 ports and is rated at 4.1 hp well usa epa has 3.8hp. I fixed A mac for a buddy and I have to say just idling there I had too run for the ear muffs I think the stock ms 290 at WOT is still quarter then macs just idling there. My point is the EPA didn’t get there Fussy DBs on them. Just my $0.02s
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
The 10-series Macs got progressively more muffled as the years went on. There have got to be well over a dozen mufflers used over the years. None really made them all that much quieter (except some of the huge mufflers on the later 82cc saws), but some really corked them up (or are prone to carbon clogging). The 10-series Macs were made into the early '90s. Corporate changes played a large part in that, as did upcoming emissions/safety/noise regulations.
mad murdock
ArboristSite Guru
I have to say, I enjoy this thread and the passion with which you bring your arguments. I started in the woods at a young age, my dad had a Promac 10-10 that we cut a lot of pulpwood with, and I began running that saw at 13 in the woods, the next year my brother and I got our own contract for 300 cds peeled popple, and we used that saw and a Johnnyred 52E. I have to admit, we would prefer the 52E for the A/V, but that old mac would outcut the newer saw all day long, and it would always start, never had to take it to the saw shop to get it worked on etc. I went on to the swede saws, always preferred them (as far as newer saws go), but I have always had a soft spot for the old macs. Being a Tree Farm owner in NW Oregon now, I am in the need of a large muscle saw, and am currently in the hunt for a 797/CP/SP125/or other variant that is 105-123CC so I can gear up to take down some 8' plus DBH Doug fir that are beginning to show signs of dying off, before they turn to powder. I do currently have a 372XPW, a 10-10A RHP, and a poulan wild thing. Keep the old iron going. The new stuff though more user friendly, is not built to last like the old stuff. when have you seen a saw built with cast iron sleeves? The old stuff was built to be used, abused, rebuilt when needed and keep on going.
FWIW.
FWIW.
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RandyMac
Stiff Member
Maximum bar lengths for a given displacement class seem to have decreased over the years. Most of the 10 series were rated by McCulloch at 28 inches, I owned a 10-10 with a 28", I bought for use in brush and slash. I did put it to use bucking and falling when needed, it did just fine with conifers.
I felled this Redwood with that 10-10 back in the late '70s, the stump has been burnt twice since then.
Remember that 90% of PNW old growth and the Redwoods was felled with metal cased, North American chainsaws.
I felled this Redwood with that 10-10 back in the late '70s, the stump has been burnt twice since then.
Remember that 90% of PNW old growth and the Redwoods was felled with metal cased, North American chainsaws.
cpr
Addicted to ArboristSite
Betcha' couldn't do that with a deuce krypotninety, Superman.
Actually, you're one of the few here who could...
Slainte.
Actually, you're one of the few here who could...
Slainte.
zogger
Tree Freak
theoretical CL ad " Collectors car! Chevrolet Cavalier, compare to Cadillac Cimmaron"!
and they wouldn't be lyin', neither...
I didn't have time atm to read all 12 pages, I might later, but I was really curious about it since I've been watchin videos of guys with 10-10s and they are slappin 28" bars on them and they cut!? Billy Ray has a bunch of 10-10s, some of them just the regular, non pro ones and I'm pretty sure I saw him running 28" bars and full house chains on them. So I started lookin around for specs, it doesn't add up? The 290 maxes out around a 20" bar theoretically, and I'm sure with the muffler mod you can maybe push it up to a 24 but definitely not a 28. The 290 is spec'ed at 3.8HP and the mac 10-10s I saw someone else mention 3.5HP if that's all correct. So how the hell does it pull a longer bar?!? Sheer torque?!? I've got to get a 10 10 fixed up and see for myself now, unless someone else can tell me for certain they are like magic or something. I DO have a couple pro mac 610s that I know you could get factory with 28" bars but I imagine those are a little more powerful out of the box than the stock 10 10 (non pro) series was. And to boot, how much more powerful are those pro mac 10 10s? Those seem to pull 28" bar full house chain no problems bone stock!?
Shihl has over rated the HP of the 290 a lot to sell cheap saws, should be more like 3.2. Steve
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There is no true "pro" versus non pro version of the 10-10. They are all essentially the same 54cc engine. The only real changes where electronic ignition vs points. Super 10-10, pro mac 10-10, pro 10-10 was all just marketing hype.
The only exception to that is a 10-10S. They where 57cc and can easily be distinguished by a decomp valve.
They will all pull a 28" bar though I would suggest skip chain and I dont think I'd push it past a 24" in hardwood.
I have a run of the mill black top 10-10automatic that happily pulls a 24" bar in hardwood with full house chain.
Does a 10-10 have a muffler on it? You couldn't tell my running mine, it's the loudest saw 10 fold I've ever had in the line-up.....double hearing protection REQUIRED!
As far as power, bar length, etc it does fine with a 20" bar and full comp if you aren't in a big hurry. I wouldnt' be afraid to run 24" or even 28" skip on it for bigger work, and I imagine that's what is being done in some of the videos we see, and/or they are cutting softer wood than I do here in Ohio.
My 10-10 is very low hour, and great compression so it's at full capacity and not half or slam worn out. It is considerably stronger than the 610 we used back in the 1970's to cut wood for three farm houses. Back then, until we made a HUGE upgrade and bought two Husquvarna 480CD's that little 610 did a fine job, but it got shelved as soon as we made the switch to Husqvarna........Cliff
As far as power, bar length, etc it does fine with a 20" bar and full comp if you aren't in a big hurry. I wouldnt' be afraid to run 24" or even 28" skip on it for bigger work, and I imagine that's what is being done in some of the videos we see, and/or they are cutting softer wood than I do here in Ohio.
My 10-10 is very low hour, and great compression so it's at full capacity and not half or slam worn out. It is considerably stronger than the 610 we used back in the 1970's to cut wood for three farm houses. Back then, until we made a HUGE upgrade and bought two Husquvarna 480CD's that little 610 did a fine job, but it got shelved as soon as we made the switch to Husqvarna........Cliff
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They had a few different "mufflers" over the years...... most did not "muffle" much lol. That is part of why I love them.
I don't always cut wood, but when I do half the town knows lol.
I had a 610, no muffler at all just the muffler screen which was soon gone. Steve
One thing to remember, most of Billy Ray’s saws are ported with muffler mods so they pull better (and sound better). And not to take anything away from their power but he’s normally running skip on those long bars in pine which is not very dense.
I’ve heard Billy mention on multiple clips that he only holds onto stock saws that really pull well, so he’s starting out with the pick of the litter.
Nonetheless, with the exception of no antivibe, the original ten series saws were definitely ahead of their time.
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