First encounter with the power company

[Grizzly]

Last night i was in the middle of a job, cutting the last branch of the day and it looked like it was going to clear.....
there was more than just a branch, it took out the power accrose the street because the utility lines were shaking arround. I didn't get off the job unit 10:00 P.M.
the Edison guy said i was one out of a few that would stay and take the heat. He said that when ever this happens, they grab their tools and leave it up to the home owner.:blob5:

 

[ddhlakebound]

Been there......

Worked for a year clearing power lines and never knocked out the power. Like our third job as a residential tree service, and bam, we KO'd the power.

Ours was also the last branch of the tree, and it didn't come off as well as it should have. The last couple feet of the tips brushed the tri-plex service drop to the house. Didnt rip it out or anything. But the next span had an open secondary line w/ the primary, the secondary, and the neutral each about 6-8 inches apart, with slack in the span. We shake the pole, pole shakes the line, and the primary and secondary hang up together. Sparks start flyin. Its crackin and popin, and I'm in the tree, 75 yards away, waiting for the fuse to blow. It didnt. After thirty or forty seconds, a block away, the transformer blows, like a shotgun blast.

My partner on the ground calls the utility company, while front porches all around are now occupied by people wanting to know why they dont have power. The power co. showed up, and we told them what happened. It only took 'em bout an hour and a half to get it up and running again, and the utility didnt chew on us at all. They did make us feel kind of dumb when they said they would have dropped the service line for free, and cut our time in half to get that job done. Called them several times since then to drop a service line, and saved hours worth of rigging.

 

[avalontree]

why is it always the last branch?

I hear ya. We were in Cambridge, Mass..tight quarters..Im throwin' brancjes over the wires because it was the easiest way due to the tree. Everything was fine, and then the branch hit the wires.

Jacobs ladder

POP

yeah.

I heard that if someone is hooked up to like life support and you knock out the power and they die you go to jail for like bad stuff

 

[woodchux]

You might just blow out some high dollar appliances too.

 

[woodchux]

I worked with a kid one time who dropped a large pine onto some smaller trees , causing a domino effect and bringing down the power line.
Called the power co. they sent out three guys and a bucket. The guys were like "the line breaker is off, but the wires aren't grounded, and we can't fool with them until they are" So the kid says i'll do it , and they let him clear the wires. No training, no ppe, no grounded wires, nothing. Crazy !

 

[Grizzly]

I got lucky because the lady is from france and she has the basics. Lights, microwave, T.V. and a fridge. Nothing high end in there. I got lucky that the lines to the apartment Bld. didn't come down. That would have been a disaster.
the guy that came out was called the trouble shooter. he was totally kick back and was suprised i stayed, because most of the other tree guy that are small and privete will grap their stuff, leave the job half assed and split.

 

[clearance]

DDlake- the primary and the secondaries are inches apart? Here the primary, or primaries and the secondaries are about 8' away from each other, at least. Let there be no confusion, the service drop is the secondary voltage and the lines on top are the primaries. When people here talk about powerlines I often wonder what they are talking about and if they are trained, properly that is, not the one day course. I have bounced branches and small tops off the primary, it is not allowed, ever. I am well trained and qualified, I have fooled around and taken chanches but looking back, it was rolling the dice. Be safe guys, when in doubt, call the power co.

 

[Grizzly]

DDlake- the primary and the secondaries are inches apart? Here the primary, or primaries and the secondaries are about 8' away from each other, at least. Let there be no confusion, the service drop is the secondary voltage and the lines on top are the primaries. When people here talk about powerlines I often wonder what they are talking about and if they are trained, properly that is, not the one day course. I have bounced branches and small tops off the primary, it is not allowed, ever. I am well trained and qualified, I have fooled around and taken chanches but looking back, it was rolling the dice. Be safe guys, when in doubt, call the power co.

It looked Like it was going to clear, but when it came down, it came down hard. The line that came down was not a primary line, it was a service into a house. I think the primary wire it what started to arc.

 

[rebelman]

Just before the big game is most dangerous.

 

[Ekka]

When people here talk about powerlines I often wonder what they are talking about and if they are trained, properly that is, not the one day course. I have bounced branches and small tops off the primary, it is not allowed, ever. I am well trained and qualified, I have fooled around and taken chanches but looking back, it was rolling the dice. Be safe guys, when in doubt, call the power co.

Sounds like you needed a lot more than a one day course. Lol

 

[clearance]

Sounds like you needed a lot more than a one day course. Lol

Palm, I went to utility school for four weeks and then worked around power for hundreds of documented hours, back to school the next year, worked hundreds more hours, back to school for another two weeks. Wrote the government final trade exam, passed, got my 1200 hours in and was certified. Some of the ISA types figure a one day course is all it takes. I knew exactly what I was doing, knew it was wrong and did it anyways, for the rush I guess. Have talked with people here about power many times, lots of ISA types blather on, they like to think they know it all. Only a few men here know the deal, in reality.

 

[treeseer]

Some of the ISA types figure a one day course is all it takes. lots of ISA types blather on, they like to think they know it all. .

Who? I'm an ISA type, but I don't know anyone who thinks one day is all it takes to work safely around wires.

A good place to start is EHAP training, if it's still offered: http://www.treecareindustry.org/public/product_ehap.htm

I read the manual thoroughly and took the test before taking the utility cert test. Helped a lot.

Worst incident I had was with a 30" tree. Topped it out, set the rope, tied it to the truck, cut the notch, started the backcut, left the 24" saw with my helper (a University-degreed and registered forester) to finish the backcut while I drove the truck.

He shouts that he's done with the cut, I pull with the truck, nothing. I pull harder, white smoke streaming from smoking clutch, nothing. Finally tree falls sideways. Seems he had forgotten to cut the other side, :monkey: so 6" of holding wood took it the wrong way, into transmission lines. Blacked out half the town for hours.

Dumb-de-Dumb dumb luck no one was hurt. Soon after I folded the company and went solo.

You CANNOT be too careful with electricity.

 

[ddhlakebound]

DDlake- the primary and the secondaries are inches apart? Here the primary, or primaries and the secondaries are about 8' away from each other, at least. Let there be no confusion, the service drop is the secondary voltage and the lines on top are the primaries. When people here talk about powerlines I often wonder what they are talking about and if they are trained, properly that is, not the one day course. I have bounced branches and small tops off the primary, it is not allowed, ever. I am well trained and qualified, I have fooled around and taken chanches but looking back, it was rolling the dice. Be safe guys, when in doubt, call the power co.

clearance, I have a high level of respect for your abilities and knowledge as a utility arborist. I have almost no respect for how you berate others without asking any questions, or knowing the situation you are speaking of.

Here's a little more info:

In Springfield, Mo., the power system is basically partially upgraded, and wholly overgrown. Transmission lines basically clear, distribution lines are a nightmare. In some places the low voltage lines, sometimes 2 or more span, are still old weathercoated (coating worn off, mostly) closely spaced copper line. Almost all house drops are tri-plex (aluminum cable with insulated line wrapped around it, carrying two 120v leads and the ground), but sometimes the tri-plex is fed by the open secondary system for one or two span. (Partially upgraded)

I was painfully accurate in my description of the events. I may not have used the exact terminology you expect to hear, but thanks for asking.

Working for the utility company I put in over 1000 hrs clearing power lines. That does not mean I would call my training proper. EHAP was the only classroom training we ever went to, but there was very little information there I was unaware of. Sure, more classroom training would have given me a larger base of usable knowledge, but the company I worked for did not offer it. Over the hours and days and weeks and months I became capable of safely handling most all the situations we came across. Maybe not proper training, but training nonetheless.

 

[diltree]

Crazy

ddhlake: "But the next span had an open secondary line w/ the primary, the secondary, and the neutral each about 6-8 inches apart, with slack in the span. We shake the pole, pole shakes the line, and the primary and secondary hang up together."



The Primary was 8" away from the secondary????......What power company had lines set like that; certainly not any in the United States, The primary and the secondary are always at least 5 feet apart in this country......You were working in some third world country id guess. I think thats why Clearance was shocked with your post.



www.dillontree.com

 

[ddhlakebound]

ddhlake: "But the next span had an open secondary line w/ the primary, the secondary, and the neutral each about 6-8 inches apart, with slack in the span. We shake the pole, pole shakes the line, and the primary and secondary hang up together."



The Primary was 8" away from the secondary????......What power company had lines set like that; certainly not any in the United States, The primary and the secondary are always at least 5 feet apart in this country......You were working in some third world country id guess. I think thats why Clearance was shocked with your post.



www.dillontree.com

Let me try to be more clear. I'm talking about low voltage lines.

Not distribution lines.

In Springfield parts of the system have not been fully upgraded. If the transformer is on the pole next to the house, it feeds directly into the insulated triplex. If the customers house is 2 or 3 span from the transformer, the last span (house to last pole) is usually insulated triplex, wrapped around an aluminum cable. The next span or two to the transformer holds the open secondary system I described. In many places these are bare copper wires 6 - 8 inches apart with slack in the span. The homeowner where we worked that day said those wires arced and sparked in any wind over 25mph, often knocking out the power. I cant reason or explain why the utility leaves the system like it is instead of making all low voltage insulated triplex. I just know that it is that way.

BTW, the utility here will not trim any insulated triplex line. They will come out and drop it so someone else can clear the service line safely, but they won't send out their trimmers. (Asphlund, as of a couple months ago.) They will trim the low voltage open secondary systems, just not the insulated triplex.

 

[Ekka]

Palm

Oh please, my name is Eric or Ekka, palms are what I cut down.

Wrote the government final trade exam, passed

No wonder you passed if you wrote the exam.

lots of ISA types blather on, they like to think they know it all.

Oh, and you don't? :jawdrop:

I would have to say that even non-certified, non qualified, non examinated types may have something to add. Everybody may have an opinion, everybody may have an experience, so please ... be a chum and give people a go.

Yes I stirred you up and was having fun, and yes, you took it hard, but it's OK we all pretty much get along and have the same objectives ... do the job get home safe.

 

[diltree]

ddh

That makes more sense.....open secondary with worn insulation banging together and blowing the power. If you recall you stated that the secondary line hit the primary and caused the outage because the lines were only 8" apart.....

Most all utility contracts include trimming the tri-plex 220 you refer too; if the wire is run as secondary(2-5 ft clearance). However, I have yet to bid a Utility Contract that included the trimming of triplex "service wires" otherwise known as "house taps". Glad we cleared things up, I was concerned you were working for some utility in a third world nation......


www.dillontree.com

 

[avalontree]

day trader

You might just blow out some high dollar appliances too.

Imagine if some dude is like an online trader and he's in the middle of some crazy big million dollar deal and then the power goes out cause somebody blew the transformer and the whole thing is gone?
Why do I find that amusing?

 

[clearance]

the next span had an open secondary line w/ the primary, the secondary, and the neutral each about 6-8 inches apart, with slack in the span. We shake the pole, pole shakes the line, and the primary and secondary hang up together.

DD-You say later, lets be clear, I'm talking about low voltage, so why did you say primary? OK, I understand, you were working around some scummy old secondary line that should be replaced by the utility, been there. Erik, ISA types blather on, check it out for a while, you'll see. The best one was some of them saying its ok to chuck a throwline higher than the primaries, to tie into the first branch!!! I only know a few things well, how to work around power, remove trees, I do know how to buck and fall but I never call myself a faller, big word. Another topic, falling, again, some ISA types think they are west coast (means big wood in the Pacific Northwest) fallers. They are not. Once there was a thread here about falling by leaving more holding wood on one side than the lean side, they called it something, forget the exact words, I thought it was some new deal and looked at it, thats what I mean. No one knows everything, some let this ISA cert. go to thier heads, and then spout off like crazy, kind of funny if they weren't talking about life and death issues, such as high voltage.

 

[Ekka]

No worries.

We dont really have much ISA cert recognition here but basically you have to do a course by the relevant Electric company. And there's a few of them.

However it sounds like the course you have done is far more in depth or involved. Like it must have covered a lot more than just cutting trees around power lines.

Also, excavator and digger operators were on the course but did some other modules for the underground stuff. we learnt about the big earthing plates, and to be careful of what they were, where, how deep etc.

But I didn't get into that much as most of the chit is 450mm+ deep and rarely do I grind that ... probably never have ground that deep.

ISA is a big thing in the USA, it very well may be the only nationally recognized cert. Over here we have private and govt colleges that teach hort/arb to a national standard. You cannot sit one test, it's a whole bunch of tests with prac day, class attendance etc... very different to the system over there.

S I suppose when some-one here who has the tickets talks about it I know what their education level is and understand their training. where as for you it must be a bit of a mine field coz you'd have a whole range of stuff from ISA thru to local authorities, power co's and private colleges ... no national standard.