First job with new gear.

[Blakesmaster]

I booked a few cherry trees over a barn for yesterday and I was pumped to tear them boys up. We just got our bag o' goodies from sherrill last week which included 600 feet of 5/8ths super-braid, a block and whoopie sling, a large port a wrap, and a coupla prussik loops and climbing doo dads. These cherries were a riggers dream.

I got the block set nice and high on a strong stem, set my friction saver a bit higher, tied off on my VT and went to town. Musta been at least 5 or 6 leads in the first two trees and I rigged every single one of them back to the central point. It was slick. I'm getting the hang of the VT and after tying off on my blakes today for a quick minute I easily saw the VT's advantages.

Anyway, quick question on the porty. I knew that our 5/8ths super braid was most likely going to twirl a bit but I didn't want to buy rope that wasn't meant for natural crotch rigging because I expect our switch to take a little time and I don't wanna tear up perfectly good rope. The problem is that we can't get it to run on the porty at all. Just one half loop over the tit in the rear of the porty and it locks right up. You have to feed it through in order to get the branch down. Is it because the rope is new and a little stiff or does this mean I just bought 600 feet of the wrong rope? Anyone else have this problem? Is it possible to modify the porty in order to make it work. Am I using the effin thing wrong? Any help is appreciated especially if that help doesn't tell me I just spent $670 on bad rope, lol.

 

[arbor pro]

How much does a single branch weigh that you're rigging? It doesn't take much friction to hold a small branch and by small I mean under 500#.

 

[ozzy42]

Are you sure it is binding in the porty,and not the block?

 

[oldirty]

are you running it through properly? make sure you are going around the post.

get the slack out too. that'll lock it up on ya.


sometimes you take a wrap too much.....

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Any help is appreciated especially if that help doesn't tell me I just spent $670 on bad rope, lol.

Part of it is that 5/8 is pretty darn big rope, I do most of my work with 1/2 and use the 9/16 only when absolutely necessary.

Is your porty built for big rope? Super Braid is a poly/poly double braid so I do not see a problem with it in a porty designed for the rope size.

How much does a single branch weigh that you're rigging? It doesn't take much friction to hold a small branch and by small I mean under 500#.

500# is quite a bit for even one wrap, but i would think that with a lot of friction in the rig-point, you could have a problem there.

 

[Dadatwins]

I agree with all of the above, 5/8 is big rope for small rigging of limbs. I see you ordered the large porty are you sure that is what you have? I have run brand new 5/8 thru mine and while the rope is stiff at first it should not lock. Possible to post a picture of how you are running the rope thru the porty? I have seen wierd setups that folks will use.

 

[glov3r]

I used a new port a wrap once that had fresh paint, It was a real mess binding up and the rope wouldnt run!

 

[pdqdl]

You are almost certainly wrapping the turns around the port-a-wrap wrong.

More than 1/2 of the guys I teach to use it go through the ring on the port-a-wrap with a loop of rope in one direction, and then reverse the direction of rotation when they get past the ring onto the pipe section.

The rope MUST rotate around the port-a-wrap in a consistent direction, from the moment it touches it, through the hold-down ring, and around the pipe.

It's easy to spot: if the rope bends backwards around the metal ring, binding in the corner where it is welded to the pipe, then you have it wrapped wrong.

Other posts are right: it doesn't take too many wraps to hold a decent size log.

Here is how you are supposed to use the Port-a-wrap: http://wesspur.com/images/pdfs/601INST.pdf

 

[Blakesmaster]

Hopefully I can remember everyone's ideas and address them...

I'm quite certain the bind was in the porty not the block. When setting lines in the tree the fact that the rope would slip too easily out of the block was always on my mind. I didn't want to have to go up there and reset the rope. That thing was smooth as butter.

I know 5/8ths is big line and probably overkill for most situations but I wanted to buy the best. The porty is the large. I'm certain. Bigger than any I've seen in the local shop.

As far as wrapping the porty wrong, I don't think it's an issue. I know what you're suggesting pdq and I've already corrected guys on other crews that doubling the rope back as you described is not the way to do it.

It actually surprised me, OD, all we had to do was put the rope over the rear post and it would bind. No additional wraps used. I'm talking 8 inch diameter cherry leads 25 foot + long. I don't know the weight on that but it's gotta be up there. As it is it's still better than wrappin' round the tree for friction but I like to see those big pieces get below me before they swing back, ya know?

I have a feeling it could simply be a bit of stiffness in the new rope ( now cut into three 200 foot sections, which almost made me cry ) and the coating on the new porty that binds it up so much. It's smooth to run if you feed it but I shouldn't have to, right?

 

[Nailsbeats]

Porty's do bind easily, that is for sure. You saw the diagram, just play with it. I am thinking that 5/8" rope is binding by your welds.

 

[masiman]

When I just want control and will not be doing larger drops I run the bull through the "small loop" without wrapping around the "rope retention bar" and straight up to the block (like putting a shoelace through the eye of a your shoe). It removes the friction from the welds and ensures that the rope stays on the porty. The short loop stands far enough away from the tree that it does not pinch the rope between the short bar and the tree. Running it this way also lets you choose which way you wrap the bull as you will never have that sharp bend in the rope, it runs straight from the top of the short loop to the barrel. Not an approved method nor as convenient as being able to put the bull on and off mid-job. It lets us choose no wraps, half-wraps, etc. With the manuf. method it is always a full wrap. Most stuff I lower is a half wrap.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Wait till ya forget to take the slip knot out and jam it into the block under load! Funtimes he he he!

 

[Dadatwins]

Good picture, thanks for posting that, my guess is figure 12 is where the problem is, I have seen that done a few times and 1/2" line will run thru, the big stuff gets kinked. One other thing, is the line from your block coming straight to the porty? Have seen some have the porty on the back side of the tree and the rope will actually be 1/2 wrapped or more on the tree before getting to the porty. The porty is a great tool, don't give up on it, you just have to play with it and get used to it.

 

[murphy4trees]

Yes you bought the wrong rope!
However you end up using the porty... 600' of 5/8" double braid is rediculous for the east coast... It would be kinda like saying I wanted to get the best climbing saw out there, so I bought 3 shtihl 066's and tied em all together with a saw lanyard and now climb with three saws hanging on my belt..

There is no such thing as the "best rope".. there is the proper rope for an application... I AM with JPS.. I rarely break out the bull rope until I AM in big wood... I keep 2 sections of 1/2", 200' true blue in a big tupperware container... and have various other shorter accesory type lines around.. Double braid sucks for normal rigging... PERIOD... no stretch and wears terribly..

 

[Panama]

The porty works best when it is above a load. When you use it from the ground, try placing an extra block a couple of feet above the porty, for the running end of the rope. Changes the angle feeding into it (as you lower) and allows you to keep the porty held up into position. Try it and see if it helps.

 

[tree MDS]

Yep, figure 12 is most likely the problem. Good job pdqdl.

Btw pdql, did you notice the part about how they tie the timber hitch? remember when we were talking about that?? still think you can tie that faster than running bowline??

I use a 9/16 db as my primary riging rope, strong enough but still easy to work with and move with three sections. The 3/4 comes out when we get into big wood.

 

[pdqdl]

... Double braid sucks for normal rigging... PERIOD... no stretch and wears terribly..

You've got to be kidding. What wears better than Samson stable braid and still stretches?

Granted, it doesn't stretch much, but I don't see that as a drawback. Stretch means rebound under heavy loading, and I don't care for that very much. It also means that you have more difficulty predicting tension when using the rope for a winch line.

 

[murphy4trees]

What wears better than Samson stable braid is Samson true blue..

And the reason you don't think lack of stretch is not much of a factor is because you understand the physics of falling objects... we've been through this all before when the rigging software first came out. The tree spyder brought that to out attention. Having stretch in the line is huge in reducing forces created during shock loads... Anyone who does a lot of rigging with big wood knows that intuitively..

And if you don't know how to sweat the stretch out of a line, you ought to learn!

 

[pdqdl]

Yep, figure 12 is most likely the problem. Good job pdqdl.

Btw pdql, did you notice the part about how they tie the timber hitch? remember when we were talking about that?? still think you can tie that faster than running bowline??

I use a 9/16 db as my primary riging rope, strong enough but still easy to work with and move with three sections. The 3/4 comes out when we get into big wood.

Their suggestion for 5 turns sounds like overkill in many applications: if you are on a smaller tree, you won't be able to get 5 wraps in. Furthermore, the instructions for 5 wraps is incomplete: it does not include the necessary instruction to pass around the tree to the opposite side of the tree. Without that, the timber hitch is likely to fail, no matter how many times you go around the rope.

A running bowline would be a terrible choice for tying on a port-a-wrap. In fact, I'm not sure how you would do that, since a running bowline is for leaving a standing leg that needs to be secured elsewhere.

And yes. Up in a tree, I can consistently tie a timber hitch faster than you can tie a running bowline. I was working on training with my main climber (re-direct techniques) a couple of days ago, and I discovered that he could not tie a bowline unless he was doing it as a running bowline. Plain rope, standing on the ground, he couldn't do it! Tied as a running bowline: fast and easy for him. This illustrates how limited many climbers can be in their ability to learn new techniques.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Yes you bought the wrong rope!
However you end up using the porty... 600' of 5/8" double braid is rediculous for the east coast... It would be kinda like saying I wanted to get the best climbing saw out there, so I bought 3 shtihl 066's and tied em all together with a saw lanyard and now climb with three saws hanging on my belt..

There is no such thing as the "best rope".. there is the proper rope for an application... I AM with JPS.. I rarely break out the bull rope until I AM in big wood... I keep 2 sections of 1/2", 200' true blue in a big tupperware container... and have various other shorter accesory type lines around.. Double braid sucks for normal rigging... PERIOD... no stretch and wears terribly..

I was afraid of that but our previous double braid rope, which we had paid just as much for was only 1/2 inch and after rigging a few trees ( all natural crotches, of course ) it showed some serious wear so this time I upped the anti. My old boss ( also a natural crotch rigger ) uses 5/8ths double braid and has used the same 3 ropes for the past 5 years that I know of and though it shows some wear, I'm still not afraid to rig big wood with it. Plus it runs through the porty just fine. That's why I think the problem is a combination of new, stiff rope, and a new porty. Should I have bought a different rope? Maybe...