FORD DUMP TRUCK f450 , 7.3 OR 6.0

[wood4heat]

I've driven all of them to some extent and other than the 6.7 I feel like they're all dogs in stock form. My 7.3 has a few mods and is definitely making more power than a stock 6.0 but it is held back by the 4 spd tranny when pulling. It just seems like to big of a jump from one gear to the next. The EGT's on that motor seem to climb pretty fast as well.

If I had it to do over I would look at the 6.4's. Seems like if you remove the emission crap from them they are strong reliable runners.

 

[mesupra]

I'd personally look right past the 450s and start looking for a f700 class truck. Unlike the 450 which are just a glorified pickup the 700 are built on a real chassis and meant to be worked. They are also a fraction of the price have much better brakes and commonly found with cat and cummins power. I've run a 450 for several years now around an 05 with the 6.0. I cannot say enough bad things about that truck. Total heap ofshit under powered under on brakes e brake would no not hold it self on a hill with even the slightest load since new. Don't waste your time.

 

[BGE541]

If I somehow had the money the 6.7 is by far the best overall ... oil cooler layout is much better, engine layout and the power it makes it awesome. Other then that the 6.0 is alwaysa go to for me but any ddiesel I have had requires maintenance and care regardless of manufacturer or brand.

 

[TooManyToys]

I don't have a history on this site, but I spent 30 years in the auto industry (engineering/vehicle testing) working alongside Ford and have a good friend who is a Ford FSE.

Do not get a 6.4. When they go its catastrophic.

The 6.0 weakness is the coolant system, and mostly due to Ford trying for a better JD Powers rating by extending the coolant maintenance to 100k miles. If they kept the coolant change to 50k as it was in the 7.3 the customers would not have had the cooler clogging, the EGR cooler then overheating / leaking and the resultant head gasket failures. And even if you change out the cooler and coolant after clogging and install a bypass filter that does partial filtering, once the contaminant is in the system close monitoring and future cooler changes will be more frequent.

However if you do keep up the maintenance the motor is good, especially the first and last years. Buying used requires very good due diligence not only of the maintenance records, but having someone with a Ford IDS to check the motor for compression balance, injector balance, other sensor functions, and a look at the oil to coolant temperature balance to know the state of the motor. It's worth the two/three hundred dollars to have a good tech check out the motor.

The 7.3 has a good history, but has its own weaknesses, the worst being the same as with any diesel motor; was the air filtering maintained well or if the motor was "dusted". Dusting is a failure in the integrity of the intake sealing and usually can be easily checked by looking at the turbo intake vanes for abrasive wear. And with a scanner check for relative compression, if the inner cylinders have the lower compression. The other weakness from a used truck point of view is that every 7.3 owner thinks they have a motor made of gold due to poor rep of the 6.0, which again is overstated.

I've owned both 7.3 and 6.0.

 

[fordf150]

Maybe I'm old school or just plain cheap but all this talk of coolant filters and coolant changes makes me ill. Coolant gets changed whenever you replace a water pump or thermostat. If it needs more maintenance than that it's not going to get it from me unless it is dexcool....in that case it gets drained and flushed the day I buy it.....refill it with green and forget it.

Air filter is a good point to mention though...any truck with a k&n type filter needs checked out. The k&n style filters work ok on gas engines but anything with a turbo should not have one. They let allot of fine dust get sucked thru the filter and dusts the turbo wheel....ask me how I know....I have the dusted wheel to prove it and the melted exhaust side wheel caused by the lack of airflow and resulting high egt's

 

[catbuster]

Maybe I'm old school or just plain cheap but all this talk of coolant filters and coolant changes makes me ill. Coolant gets changed whenever you replace a water pump or thermostat. If it needs more maintenance than that it's not going to get it from me unless it is dexcool....in that case it gets drained and flushed the day I buy it.....refill it with green and forget it.

Air filter is a good point to mention though...any truck with a k&n type filter needs checked out. The k&n style filters work ok on gas engines but anything with a turbo should not have one. They let allot of fine dust get sucked thru the filter and dusts the turbo wheel....ask me how I know....I have the dusted wheel to prove it and the melted exhaust side wheel caused by the lack of airflow and resulting high egt's

Really? Are you talking about the high-flow filters?

 

[fordf150]

All the K&N style filters. Oiled cloth/mesh filters.

I dusted 2 turbo wheels before I figured out what was causing it. Replaced the second wheel and still couldn't make over 20psi boost so I pulled the turbo and found the exhaust side fins melted. That is when I replaced the turbo, outlet housing, removed the ebpv, replaced the k&n cold air setup with a home made one using a massive paper filter, added the egt gauge( already had the gauge installed but never bothered to hook it up). 20k miles in the same driving conditions and it is still putting out over 30psi

 

[TooManyToys]

Agreed on the K&N filters, even on gas motors. Yes they flow, along with the dust. In the diesel arena, Donaldson makes excellent filters.

A few decades ago I had a discussion with an engineer from a filter company about filter changes which turned conventional wisdom on its head to some extent. As a filter loads up with dust it actually becomes more efficient, filtering smaller and smaller particles. So if you changeout a filter early on a routine basis you are actually allowing more dust through then keeping it longer. The trick is to know when it starts to excessively restrict flow. So with a diesel that has a restriction gauge it's important to rely on it but check that it works correctly.

While many motors are tolerant of letting the coolant intervals slide, the problem with the 6.0 has been the conversion of even the low amount of silicates in the G05 dropping out of solution and turning into gel when in contact with the high temperatures of the oil cooling plates in the oil to coolant heat exchanger (cooler). And it depends on the coolant age and operating conditions. Some have no issues making it to over 100k miles while others can have issues at 75k. So changing out at the earlier 50k points or switching to a non-silicate formulation is a good practice. But some develop issues even with that. The heat exchanger seems to be a very efficient filter for particles as well, so even a bypass filter while providing some protection doesn't have the flow to get everything normally floating around in the coolant from age.

I know of one fleet operation that had over 30 6.0 motors in sevice that never had any heat exchanger issues with the trucks getting up into the 250k mile range. The maintenance supervisor was old school and had his program set up for coolant changes at 2 years or 50k miles.

 

[catbuster]

All the K&N style filters. Oiled cloth/mesh filters.

I dusted 2 turbo wheels before I figured out what was causing it. Replaced the second wheel and still couldn't make over 20psi boost so I pulled the turbo and found the exhaust side fins melted. That is when I replaced the turbo, outlet housing, removed the ebpv, replaced the k&n cold air setup with a home made one using a massive paper filter, added the egt gauge( already had the gauge installed but never bothered to hook it up). 20k miles in the same driving conditions and it is still putting out over 30psi

Huh. I used a K&N diesel-specific filter the last time I replaced mine and haven't had any problems with my 2002, currently sitting at 351K on the odo. I do use Donaldson on all my other rigs for air, and OEM for fluids. That's interesting.

 

[fordf150]

my air filter setup is a 10" diameter 12" long paper filter connected to the turbo with a piece of 4" exhaust pipe. Been on there almost 2 years and the element is still white. The filter itself is probably double the size of the K&N filter it replaced.

 

[TooManyToys]

The K&N are very intolerant of improper oiling. If you have the knack for doing it right they can work well, but if oiling of the gauze is inconsistent with a few under oiled areas they will let dust through. Over oiled they overcoat MAF sensors if you have one. Without a sensor downstream of the filter over oiling and letting time correct the issue is more palatable.

In a racing environment it's not as much of an issue due to the overhauling of the motors on the short time basis. But for the commercial field there are better alternatives when downtime and ROI concerns are paramount.

 

[angelo c]

what about the Duramax engines in the 4500 and 5500 chevys.
My understanding is they are good engines due to the lack of the HPCR injectors.( or is it a different pump ? something is different don't remember what/)
Very tight turning radius as well.

 

[mdavlee]

I think it's the same engine in the 4500 and 5500.

I've used the K&N filters for the 89-93 dodge/cummins on the 7.3 trucks. It's about the size of the whole air box that is stock. Never seemed to have a problem with them.

 

[fordf150]

Not everyone runs their truck around dusty hay fields and dirt roads like I do. May just be the dusty environment that I put my truck through that caused me problems but doesn't take to long searching the diesel forums to find others that have had the same experience as me

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Not everyone runs their truck around dusty hay fields and dirt roads like I do. May just be the dusty environment that I put my truck through that caused me problems but doesn't take to long searching the diesel forums to find others that have had the same experience as me

Every K&N I've had did the same... dusted the intake piping, turbo, etc. That's on several trucks I've bought over the years.

Shoot the one in my Jeep was so **** it let actual SAND in! Like actual grains of sand where in the intake manifold.

After replacing with a normal paper filter, no issues.

 

[BGE541]

On the 6.0 the stock air filter setup can flow up to about 550hp after that a higher flowing system is good but I agree that aftermarket filters of all kinds can cripple diesels.

 

[mdavlee]

Any of you run the AFE dry ones or the oiled ones? I spent time in the desert with the oiled one with no problems and had to clean it once a month or more.

 

[BGE541]

Any of you run the AFE dry ones or the oiled ones? I spent time in the desert with the oiled one with no problems and had to clean it once a month or more.

The AFE ones are the better of the intake/filter set ups from what I have heard.

 

[mdavlee]

I run them on the last few trucks.