Freelance climbers

[mrtree]

I do not doubt that in some situations a hired gun can make a company money and certainly they can help to get the backlog cleaned up. My concern is not really ethical as much as it it making sure the ass of the workers and company are covered. If you bring in a hired gun and pay them as an employee (even if they are $20-30 per hour) rather than as a subcontractor, I believe you may be saving yourself huge, legal, regulatory and financil headaches. If you run a company with public liability, workers compensation, business numbers, tax numbers etc. then you probably should pay the freelancer as an employee and assure yourself that they are covered if there is damage done or the freelancer is injured.

For example, you have groundman and freelancer who have never worked together. During rigging damage is done, who is responsible and who will pay? Do you want to argue between you and the freelancer? What happens if its major damage, your insurance says sorry the freelancer is a subcontractor and needs to pay, the freelancer's insurance says sorry you are making a living working directly with a company and your (freelancers) coverage is therefore not in force. I think the homeowner, municipality or utility does not care, they want the damage fixed and fixed now. Have you got the money?

This is but one problem. I think we can imagine the other legal and regulatory problems that could arise.

Michael

 

[Reed]

Lot's of details fer sure.

Litigation may null and void any contract anyway - like the releases signed before bungee jumping or skydiving, there's always a way around them.

I don't see too many problems with subtracting a freelancer to fill a time void - true, the crew's not used to him (or her), but it could get the operator out of a pickle - and they certainly can't afford to keep him long on the pay scale the climber needs to keep his independent status.

I enjoyed working with my pine-climber helper back east, but somehow the boss and him had terrible chemistry - unresolvable. He got fired and I was sorry to see him go (work load on me doubled) and after a few weeks when my shoulder couldn't take the pressure, he hired a hired gun - for five days. Sure, it was costly but we didn't loose the contracts pending and the golf courses and city jobs wouldn't wait, so there was no choice. He wasn't that good though - he cut two of my climbing ropes and broke my 020T casing. Still, I was glad for the help.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Up here in Pa. the type of freelance climbing that Brian and John Paul Sanborn do is popular here. Some guys just don't want the hassles of dealing with crews and equipment that is not theirs. From the climbers that I have spoken with they are successful and happy working this way. The only bad thing is when the winter months come, work can get thin.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
I am a legitimate independant contractor with licenses and insurance, I pay my own taxes.

How do you cover yourself for disability(workers comp.)?

 

[TREETX]

Brian - I explained my point, I think you agreed. For niche situations where another man is needed. I question the viability of any company that does not have a competent, proven climber on their staff. One that relies on ladders and power pruners.

Again, I do not question the value or viability of the service you provide.

MM - what is up with the WC paranoia?

Who is responsible in an accident, the contract climber or company ground man?? That is a no brainer. Reguarless of contracts, whoever has the deepest pockets.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
I'm now grossing over $1000 per week and working less hours.

Brian,

Glad to see that freelancing is working well for you.


My climbing skills are not good enough to for me to make this kind of money.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Treetx, to answer yor question, do you have auto insurance?
If I told you that MPG doesn't mean anything to me, 'cus I save money by not insuring my vehicals, would that help expain?
In WI, we pay around 30% of payroll to WC. Find a way to cut that out, and you can get all kinds of work.
I'm in the unfortunate position of working for a legitamate business, everything else equal, how can my employer comptete with those who skip insuance and/or tax costs?
Take a $1000 job, WC cost around $100, taxs about another $100 cost, expenses to run legitamate and full time, another $100. What customer in their right mind is going to pick the $1000 bidder when there is a $700 bid?
Day after day we get screwed out of good jobs from good people because of fly by night "tree services" and the money they save the customer by skipping the "goods".
We have plenty of work to keep going, but if the playing field was level, we could charge and make more.
Other trades make quite a bit more than arborist do, and one big reason is what we are talking about here. You always hear the critism about the guy with a pick-up truck and a chainsaw outbidding the big company, but what they are really saying is, the guy without insurance/tax, outbidding the legitamate business. I guess what I want to see is a level playing field/ licensing for arborists, like plumbers or electricians.
Brian's proud of 1000 per week, which is good pay, but we're talking about a skilled professional in his trade for twenty years just craking $50,000 and self insuring(kinda) with no benifits. Sadly, he could make more at McDonald's.

 

[TREETX]

You make good points.

What is MPG?

Liability auto insurance covers other people - mandatory. Comprehensive covers me - my choice. That was my point about insurance.

W/C covers the worker not the client - right??

You make us smaller companies sound like hacks or lacking legitimacy for not having W/C. Huh?? I LEGALLY don't have to carry it because I have less than 5 employees. That means my A$$ is not covered. That is my gamble if you want to call it that but it in no way make me any less legitimate.

You are correct about the pay. But who is in this for the money?? It is not a get rich at all sceme. It is a labor of love or some of the most thankless work on the face of the planet. If I was working solely for the monetary compensation involved, you would call me Dr. Nathan.

Take care

Nate

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

MPG/miles per gallon, I guess it did make too much sense but that's what i was thinking.

If your hospital and recovery bills go to the hundreds of thousands, or millions, you, or your uninsured workers, could sue the homeowner. Do the homeowners know this? Say you don't sue, where's that money comming from, especially if you can never work again?

WC laws vary state to state.

It is thankless, but it shouldn't be, nor should those that choose this somewhat high risk field, be almost forced to work underinsured, while workers in almost every other field, have full benifits and insurance.
It doesn't make sense to be uninsured in such a high risk occupation.

 

[TREETX]

MPG made sense but your attempt at an analogy of some sort was a complete failure.

I operate under the letter of the law when it comes to insurance. I inform homeowners what I do/don't have. $1000000 in liability. That makes them feel pretty secure. If not, they are free to have another company do the work. That in no way make my co any less legitimate.

Big companies pay a lot where you are but around here a climber for a big green company is lucky to get $12/hr. A foreman only $14-15. I don't feel sorry for the companies at all. They legally have to carry WC here and by doing so net the lion's share of 20K+ contracts. Boo hoo.

I refuse to live in this uniquely American mindset of sue, sue, sue, and I refuse to live in fear of it. I also don't have a fortune to protect.

 

[geofore]

Find a climer?

What, they don't have a union hall you can call near you or are you unwilling to pay union scale?