Friction saver - rings in nylon strap?

[Ghillie]

Thanks for all of the replies guys.

Here are some answers to questions/issues raised:

*Ghillie: I already have a set of fids. Are you saying you can substitute something cheaper or that the Menards pick works better?

*Treemandan: you made me go back and look...the WLL depends on how the strap is used. On p. 59 of the new catalog it looks like the WLL is only 960lbs at the girths. I guess that is the final answer. Not good.

*Raymond: I got it stuck once and had to throw a new line and reclimb to get it down. I should always send up the throw line with it. I do if it is questionable. If things don't go right getting it down, I can start over and try it again - or worst case, put the climbing line back in and climb up to it, re-tie without it and rapp down.

*outofmytree: As this is, I have not altered anything - just put 2 approved components together. Obviously stitching it would be an alteration... To your other questions: Steel rings. I damaged the original strap with my handsaw - just glazed it. I still used it for a while as there was just some fringed webbing, but every time I used it, I thought better about it and finally broke down (wised up!) and bought a new one. This idea was just trying to salvage something.

*murphy: several good points there all to be taken into advisement.

Bottomline goes back to the correction treemandan brought up: The strap is NOT adequate for life support. Oh well, it was a good idea for a day or 2 that never got used.

So what do I do with the steel rings now? Guess I'll splice some Arbormaster if nothing else comes up.

The tubular fids will give you fits in 16 strand (read worthless), I ended up making a fid out of 14 ga copper wire soldered together to double it and a strand of core material. Works great.

The picks are for pulling cover strands for tapering and for extracting the core. I think my set of 6 picks was around $3 and take a lot of frustration out of the job. Here is a picture of one of the picks.

It came from my "Rainy days splicing" thread which has close up pictures of my wire fid ( I got the idea from Moray, I cannot take credit.)

I think splicing friction savers out of rope is the way to go. At least I am going to give it a try, probably pretty soon with all this crappy weather we have been getting.

 

[Ghillie]

BTW, I think to make a eye and eye 16 strand sling, your finished product would have to be at least 55" long center of eye to center of eye.

Tenex might be a better choice, with a locking brummel, you can make shorter slings and the splice is WAY easier. Plus you should be able to make it out of 19mm cord so it would be more durable.

 

[tree md]

I bought one like 4 years ago from Sherrill but I've never used it.
Was always afraid it would not come down when I was done.
I figure the first time I used them and it got stuck would be the last.

So do these come down alright and not get hung up?
I think I'll dig mine out of the bottom of the box and give it a try soon.

Never had a problem with mine coming out Ray. I just use a well dressed figure eight knot. Works like a charm.

 

[outofmytree]

*outofmytree: As this is, I have not altered anything - just put 2 approved components together. Obviously stitching it would be an alteration... To your other questions: Steel rings. I damaged the original strap with my handsaw - just glazed it. I still used it for a while as there was just some fringed webbing, but every time I used it, I thought better about it and finally broke down (wised up!) and bought a new one. This idea was just trying to salvage something.

The alteration is when you remove them from the original strap.

Took my slow brain a while to figure out why they might get stuck in a crotch...Doh! After finally getting the point I cant see a use for those rings. Unless you paint em to look like donuts and leave em on the dashboard where ya groundie can see me...

 

[Raymond]

The alteration is when you remove them from the original strap.

Took my slow brain a while to figure out why they might get stuck in a crotch...Doh! After finally getting the point I cant see a use for those rings. Unless you paint em to look like donuts and leave em on the dashboard where ya groundie can see me...

I love donuts...

 

[Ghillie]

The alteration is when you remove them from the original strap.

Took my slow brain a while to figure out why they might get stuck in a crotch...Doh! After finally getting the point I cant see a use for those rings. Unless you paint em to look like donuts and leave em on the dashboard where ya groundie can see me...

What do you consider it if you buy rings from Sherrill or Wesspur and make your own rope friction saver? I am not saying it is not an alteration, I am just asking from your viewpoint and location.

 

[Marty B]

Beer Knot

If the stap material is hollow you could also use a Beer knot to close the loop instead of stitching. Beer knot is simple and it can't be pull apart. I use the tube material for redirects for my climbing line. How to tie a beer knot?......First tie a loose overhand knot about 12" from one end of the tube material. Next you push the other end of the tube material into the end with the loose overhand knot, about 12". Now roll the loose overhand knot so it ends up in the middle of the doubled up tubes. You should have 6" of doubled material on either side of the overhand knot. All you have to do is pull the overhand knot tight an you have a beer knot.

 

[YankeeinSC]

They melt FAST...

Trying to save time last fall, we were hogging down a red oak I was crotch rigging the main trunk down in almost too big sections. I got below the last natural crotch and rigged a block as a false crotch. Somehow when I pushed the very next section off, the pulley twisted so that the bull rope was running on the webbing. The ground guys let it run about 2 feet to clear my toes and I thought they dropped it to the ground. The next thing I heard was the metal pulley hitting the deck. Just a little friction! I couldn't believe how quick the websling turned to mush pulled apart and left melted streamers trailing behind the ground-ward pulley.

I'll pay Old man Buckingham.

 

[tree md]

:agree2:

 

[randyg]

Trying to save time last fall, we were hogging down a red oak I was crotch rigging the main trunk down in almost too big sections. I got below the last natural crotch and rigged a block as a false crotch. Somehow when I pushed the very next section off, the pulley twisted so that the bull rope was running on the webbing. The ground guys let it run about 2 feet to clear my toes and I thought they dropped it to the ground. The next thing I heard was the metal pulley hitting the deck. Just a little friction! I couldn't believe how quick the websling turned to mush pulled apart and left melted streamers trailing behind the ground-ward pulley.

I'll pay Old man Buckingham.

Yikes! Hadn't thought much about it but now I'm thinkin that first picture in this thread looks like a big fat NOT SUCH A GOOD IDEA DUDE. . .

 

[elmnut]

One observation would be the load rating on your stap from Sherrill. I would be looking for a rating of at minimum 5000 lbs. to 6500 lbs. . The life you save may be your own.

I have heard the 5,500 lb rating for life support rigging

 

[outofmytree]

What do you consider it if you buy rings from Sherrill or Wesspur and make your own rope friction saver? I am not saying it is not an alteration, I am just asking from your viewpoint and location.

As far as regulations here are concerned, it is alteration of original spec' by someone outside the manufacturer/repairer/distributor chain that is deemed unsafe. So if you have the "äppropriate qualifications" making your own friction saver is fine. Personally I wonder where this leaves you when tying a knot in a piece of rope!

On the subject of friction savers I used one whilst rescue training recently that was "made" by the trainer who won the state event this year with a pulley/maillon on one side and a 4 way krab on the other. It may have been "ïllegal" but wow, what a great smooth climb. I feel the need to "adjust" something in my own kit now......

 

[Bearcreek]

Whats a 4 way krab?

 

[Ghillie]

...Personally I wonder where this leaves you when tying a knot in a piece of rope!....

That is a very good question.

 

[Slvrmple72]

A lawyer who can convince a jury that a piece of rope should in no way be tied into a knot for any reason of life support and therefore the manufacturer cannot be held responsible for said failure of rope due to knot weakness is gonna have to be one heck of a lawyer! A splice is so much neater though!


I have a length of throwline on my crotchsaver, when I am done I yank my line out of the big ring and the knot stops it in the little ring and I lower it down with the throwline. Piece of pie, easy as cake!

 

[outofmytree]

Whats a 4 way krab?

4 way karabiner. Or if you count the other way, a 3 way karabiner with opeing the gate as the 4th action...

 

[Ekka]

That is a very good question.

There is a lot of misinformation spread here. It wouldn't be the first time some-one at a TCC got it wrong, not so long ago in Queensland the "officials" stopped a Kiwi using an ART Rope Guide ... because they had not seen one before and it was not stamped with a rating etc like a carabiner.

Friction savers are not rigging anyway, they are life support.

The reason why climbing ropes for life support are rated at 5400lbs is to make allowances for knots and wear/tear.

The making of your own FS is completely viable and "legal" (although that is incorrect terminology) providing the components such as the "loop" or "rope" are 5400lbs min. How many make their own flip lines? I do, you can buy the snaps and make your own no problem.

Anyone running a climbing comp, arborcamp or their own private GTG has the right to instill any rule they like, just because it was done incorrectly based on misinformation doesn't mean it was really wrong. I was once challenged that my flip line wasn't a bought one etc, however the components were above the 5400lb minimum, the responsibility of tying knots lies with the climber, what is a climber doing up a tree if they cannot tie knots?