Go look at previous units that the logger has logged and talk to the landowners. You have homework to do.
Getting my 25 acre wood lot timbered this winter
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xraydaniel
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Here are some specimens. 30” red oak and close to 30” EWP. I probably have about 50-100 of these a piece. It’s really hard to tell since I never did a grid check.
Some of those tri and quad stump sprouts too.
Some of those tri and quad stump sprouts too.
When doing a bulk sale we cruised the timber selected for a selective cut. A cut like this means each tree has to be evaluated. Normally we would reduce the stumpage price by 10% for the offer to buy. The way you evaluate a tree for logs is you take measurement for diameter around 4 to 6 feet off the ground because of the flare of the butt. An estimator isn't going to buy what he can't use. Most of the time this flared butt gets cut off by the logger or mill. If the logger does it ask him to place the butts in a place where you can use them for fire wood later. If they send it to the mill, the mill will cut it off and send it to the chipper for fuel wood.
xraydaniel
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Truth. I appreciate the feedback. Do you prefer mill tally or bulk bids?
I personally have done both, mill tally and bulk bids. Down here in Lower Alabama most loggers work through a Dealer who sells to the mills. The Dealers get the mill tally with the producers name on it ( land owner ).
Now if you have specially wood, wood that would command a higher price, you would look for a dealer that specialized in this kind of wood for max. price and he would cruse and mark the timber he wanted to buy and then make you an offer. I sold some Long Leaf Pine to a specialized dealer who bought pilling for docks, bridges and such. He wanted certain sizes and he marked the ones he wanted and said he would send someone to cruse them and then he would give me a price. I told him I would go along with the cruse and we would number each tree and enter the data on the tally sheet, that way we would both know the volume selected. That was about the time he realized I knew what was going on and the cruse would go by the book.
In your case you are going to select cut or thin your forest and by the looks of it that would involve removing undesirable trees. I would mark the trees I wanted removed and then call someone in to give you a price. Mill tally would probable be your best bet, that way you get paid for what they take off your land. If you found someone you trust then bulk bid would be OK.
In the case of bulk bid on a select cut I mark the trees I want to keep in a different color and mark the bottom of the tree also, that way if there is an over cut you can tell. You mark both sides high on the tree and the bottom. If a tree isn't marked they can cut it. Sometimes it's easier to mark what you want to keep.
Now if you have specially wood, wood that would command a higher price, you would look for a dealer that specialized in this kind of wood for max. price and he would cruse and mark the timber he wanted to buy and then make you an offer. I sold some Long Leaf Pine to a specialized dealer who bought pilling for docks, bridges and such. He wanted certain sizes and he marked the ones he wanted and said he would send someone to cruse them and then he would give me a price. I told him I would go along with the cruse and we would number each tree and enter the data on the tally sheet, that way we would both know the volume selected. That was about the time he realized I knew what was going on and the cruse would go by the book.
In your case you are going to select cut or thin your forest and by the looks of it that would involve removing undesirable trees. I would mark the trees I wanted removed and then call someone in to give you a price. Mill tally would probable be your best bet, that way you get paid for what they take off your land. If you found someone you trust then bulk bid would be OK.
In the case of bulk bid on a select cut I mark the trees I want to keep in a different color and mark the bottom of the tree also, that way if there is an over cut you can tell. You mark both sides high on the tree and the bottom. If a tree isn't marked they can cut it. Sometimes it's easier to mark what you want to keep.
Do state foresters mark private woodlots? Not in Rhode Island. Pretty sure they don't in Connecticut either, not
sure about Massachusetts.
sure about Massachusetts.
xraydaniel
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Pretty sure they don’t in Ma.
xraydaniel
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In Ma?
Interesting, how long ago Bill?
Jhenderson
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Ct only allows 4 hrs of state forester on site advice. Basically just a quick assessment of the situation and then a list of foresters you can hire. There’s also now local permitting and site visits by local officials. It’s getting more and more complicated.
Yeah it's getting complicated. Here in WI you need to submit a cut notice to the county for tax purposes. That way the state can get their share of the sale.
I marked timber for years and years. It's the job nobody wants to do, unless they are fallers and get paid well for carrying cans of paint instead of a heavy saw and accessories.
Make sure you get that butt mark (the one at stump level) as close to the ground as possible and get the paint into crevices or scars where it can't be easily rubbed off by a skidder tire. Bunchers/processors cut very low stumps so that requires marking low. You've also got to have a bit of knowledge to identify how a tree is going to fall or if it will be possible to get the tree on the ground without falling additional trees, that you might want to leave. It's the job that can't be done perfectly. Additional trees will most likely have to come down during operations because of hung up trees and road, skid road, and landing construction.
Loggers like a lot of paint on the tree. Markers like less because it means less paint to carry.
Use a specific color and maybe ask around to see what the common paint scheme is. Around here on federal lands, orange is for leave trees, blue is for cut trees. On state lands, it looks like blue is for leave trees and sometimes fallers get confused. I've had to deal with having a couple of acres of leave trees cut by confused fallers. It isn't fun.
Use tree marking paint. It's made to last a few years and doesn't get sucked up by the bark. Logging supply stores probably carry it and then online forestry supply outfits do carry it.
And then, during logging, check up on the operations yourself. Walk through the area frequently after work has stopped for the day. Ask questions.
We call that portion of the butt log that is cut off because it has excessive sweep, a long butt. Keep an eye on that. Sometimes the cutter goes overboard and longbutts portions that are actually merch. And, this means you might want to peruse some forestry books on tree defects. I am "out west" so have an old copy of the Idaho log scaling book. There are probably some local books in your area showing various rots and defects and how to ID those.
It takes a while to learn and that's why there are foresters out there.
Make sure you get that butt mark (the one at stump level) as close to the ground as possible and get the paint into crevices or scars where it can't be easily rubbed off by a skidder tire. Bunchers/processors cut very low stumps so that requires marking low. You've also got to have a bit of knowledge to identify how a tree is going to fall or if it will be possible to get the tree on the ground without falling additional trees, that you might want to leave. It's the job that can't be done perfectly. Additional trees will most likely have to come down during operations because of hung up trees and road, skid road, and landing construction.
Loggers like a lot of paint on the tree. Markers like less because it means less paint to carry.
Use a specific color and maybe ask around to see what the common paint scheme is. Around here on federal lands, orange is for leave trees, blue is for cut trees. On state lands, it looks like blue is for leave trees and sometimes fallers get confused. I've had to deal with having a couple of acres of leave trees cut by confused fallers. It isn't fun.
Use tree marking paint. It's made to last a few years and doesn't get sucked up by the bark. Logging supply stores probably carry it and then online forestry supply outfits do carry it.
And then, during logging, check up on the operations yourself. Walk through the area frequently after work has stopped for the day. Ask questions.
We call that portion of the butt log that is cut off because it has excessive sweep, a long butt. Keep an eye on that. Sometimes the cutter goes overboard and longbutts portions that are actually merch. And, this means you might want to peruse some forestry books on tree defects. I am "out west" so have an old copy of the Idaho log scaling book. There are probably some local books in your area showing various rots and defects and how to ID those.
It takes a while to learn and that's why there are foresters out there.
xraydaniel
Addicted to ArboristSite
Great points. It’s surprising how many spray cans are consumed by the bark of a pine.
If I had the time and energy I would be doing all the marking myself but that’s not gonna happen with my current life situation. I will be checking often to see how it’s going.
As noted earlier I already have a management plan. It’s a low grade selective cut + clear cut. I’m not sure if I will get a spreadsheet of what was cut and sold from my forester after the mill tally is done. I would hope to get one and also a breakdown of costs and charges. Who knows if back door deals take place and a private forester takes a kick back from a certain outfit, more than a little high grading is done, and the actual invoice doesn’t reflect an honest cut. I’m sure it happens all the time.
Jhenderson
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I prefer Nelson blue because it’s the only that’s not naturally occurring so it sticks out no matter what the season.
A forester told me a logger can spot a dime size mark on a good tree but you need a pie plate on junk before it gets noticed.
A forester told me a logger can spot a dime size mark on a good tree but you need a pie plate on junk before it gets noticed.
It will if you think that way. Good luck.
I mark the stump at GROUND level, sometimes on two sides, and then mark the chest high mark on two sides. I've mostly worked on steep ground and that means a slash across the tree on the downhill side, as well as the stump mark should always go on the downhill side, and then a slash across the uphill side. More of the stump will survive on the downhill side, so that's the side with a well marked blob of some sort. I've had mechanized folk want the upper mark around the whole tree so they don't have to get off their machine to check but that was their preference and not required.
Had a timber theft case where they tried so hard to scrape off the stump mark, it made it quite obvious what was going on. That was a leave tree marked sale.
The Forest Service has a super secret paint recipe. Additives are put in the paint that react to chemicals. I was required to take out the little vial of chemicals and test the paint on cut trees every once in a while.
And yes, Nelson Tree Marking Paint is the least cloggy of it all.
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