Getting underbid

[Yellowdog]

If it wasn't so cold I would move to the cheaper states! Services are taxed at the state, county, and local level and MTA (transit) if you are in a bigger city. I usually have to charge 6.75%. Pain in the arse, it is but part of doing a job.

It really is tough explaining things here. People don't want to pay anymore than they have to. Can we blame them. I don't. I hate collecting sales tax. I get irked by all the fly by nights. I got 2 teenagers and a baby to feed and 7 dogs! yep, I need my jobs and I don't like losing them to people that underbid because they are outside the rules..Here's something I wrote about on the subject for my website.

http://www.yellowdogservices.com/honestypays.html

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by Yellowdog

I hate the idea of ratting out someone because I miss a few regulations myself

Missing them because of an honest error is at least honorable.

Missing them 'cuz you're a hack scumbag isn't.

Turn the dork in, and it makes it easer for the legit to be legit. As far as I'm concerned, he's stealing.

 

[wiley_p]

This should make you guys feel better, I startted a removal job today for my freinds parents, removing 3 Lombardii poplars multi stem hell. The avg. DBH is 4', I started the hardest one today, lots of up and down, tip tying, butt ties etc. on the last peice today everyone was tired, and the folks on the lines kinda forgot the importance of their task(like let the load line run a bit and hold the butt off of me long enough to clear me) none of it happened that way, I got my bright self tagged between 700# of poplar and the rigging spar. needless to say I'll be back tomorrow, and the nextday and I think the next couple. So after around 210.00 in fuel 64.00 in tax and 300.00 for the riggers I'll bring for the rest of the job 574.00 out of 800.00 thats what you call an underbid job. Shoiuld be 3800.00 but you know if a guys gonna do bad no sense messing around.

 

[Yellowdog]

I'm in a little different business but it complements and crosses over. I'm too fat to climb trees (I can climb like a gorilla but the trees don't like it). I hire out climbers when I need them. The company I use usually doesn't underbid. I feel like heck, though, when I bid for a couple of days with machinery for about $1300 then they bid for $1300 plus tax for two climbers for 2.5 days. They're overhead is a lot less. I put up the insurance and have the equipment and it's my job but I always come out the loser on the bidding. I'm glad they are making money (owner is a friend) but I wish I could get paid a little more. When I try to bid higher to make a better profit, I get snubbed or underbid. What gives? I know it's me. i have 7 years experience bidding and 1000's of hours in machines and still don't often get it right!
Throw in a newbie with no overhead and it's a losing proposition.

An example of pricing. I charge about $65 hour for Bobcat work. Mind you, that's mostly for general work. I have alot of attachments and will charge more for some of them. I get underbid by a hack with a much smaller machine, no attachments, no insurance, etc. for $10/hr difference. That stings. Also, I can come to the job with 3 attachments and spare parts on every trip because of my setup. The other guys often rent a machine and get a bucket and small machine. Over the course of 8 hours or 80 bucks, I can do so much more but people look at the numbers. I can't work for less than $65 hr. on hourly work or I won't be in business. Even if I ain't at work, I have to pay insurance so I have to keep my rates where they are.

There is no clear answer unless you have the guts to separate as many customers as you can from their money. I like to get referrals and call backs. Maybe I should just make as much as I can and move on (build in enough to fix any mistakes or make the customer absolutely happy). Dunno. Anyone have the answer?

 

[murphy4trees]

I charge 65/hr for a man with a rake and shovel!!!


WELLLLLLLLLLLLL at least I try to.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sounds like a fair price to me.

 

[Yellowdog]

Originally posted by murphy4trees
I charge 65/hr for a man with a rake and shovel!!!


WELLLLLLLLLLLLL at least I try to.

Wow, $65 for a man with a rake and shovel. It has to be something with your location. Here, I literally compete with crews of wetbacks for clearing a lot. I hire pro tree trimmers and climbers for tree work whereas the cheap help butchers our poor oaks. Our cedars are literally chopped with machetes and hatchets! If the President's guest worker program goes through, I may really be in trouble!

My tree guys get about $32 per man hour give or take. That doesn't leave me much wiggle room when bidding because of the availability of very cheap and often (I believe) illegal labor. What can you do?

 

[NeTree]

Ever run over a 'can?

 

[Newfie]

"We only pay around 7% in income tax"


That's higher than Mass. I think we like to B!tch about taxes here because nothing is taxed in NH except property. Having seen taxes here and there it seems like mass is starting to lag behind in the tax game. Although it always seems like the state has its hand in my pocket for something, right Erik!

 

[NeTree]

You got that right. Hell knows we gotta pay for the big-friggin-dig so some yuppie can make it from Andover to Boston in 30 minutes instead of 35, right Mike?


NH may have not have many taxes, but the property taxes are sky-high.

 

[TREETX]

Texas has sales tax on all tree work, but no state income tax.

Taxes are inevitable. Part of that no free lunch thing.

LJ - be a pro at what you do, don't get too worked up about hacks. It is disappointing though. I always look at them as being a commodity product while I strive to be a value added product by offering superior customer service. What I am getting at is don't spend roo much time looking over your shoulder.

 

[NickfromWI]

In NJ, you don't have to charge sales tax for a tree job if it's a removal and you grind the stump. I guess when you grind the stump, you are adding value to the property or something like that, and you don't have to charge the client tax on that.

I don't know the specifics, but you might have something like it in your area. Imagine going to bid on a huge tree that 3 other companies have looked at. You bid the same as the others, but since you knew that there'd be no tax, you're bid comes in $100 cheaper!

Whose gonna get the job?

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Just turned down a job topping 5 pecan trees. The guy couldn't figure out that I didn't top trees. He called it "rounding them over."

And it actually felt good to tell him no, I won't top them.


Carl

 

[rborist1]

:Eye: