Getting Worse... #$%^&

[Dale]

I mentioned in another post, about a Stihl 015 AV my in-law gave to me. Out of the case, I got it started after trying a while, but it would only stay running for a few seconds. I thsn figured it needed a carb. cleaning (gaskets, etc...). Well I refubed the carb., new fuel line and filter, new plug. I was ready to hear it purr. Well guess what... NOTHING. I can't even get it to rev for a second now. I'm not sure if it's something I did or ???

Hmmmm how often do points/condensors go bad in a saw ?

What about the coil ? How do I check for a bad coil ?

How bout plug gap. What should it be set at as I just tossed it in out of the box ?

Like I said. I originally was thinking fuel related because it did run for a few seconds, then I put my magic hands to it and it seems I'm going in reverse.

Any thoughts ? I know it could be a million things but if I can test for spark maybe I can get back to a fuel related problem. Well the gaskets on the carb were "fused" to the carb body. I really had to spend time digging the gaskets off... maybe I got a piece clogging a jet. Man I really sprayed it out good though.

Any thoughts ?

 

[timberwolf]

Pull the plug, plug it into the cap and hold it against the cyl, pull it over and see if you have a spark, then go from there.

 

[Dale]

"plug it into the cap and hold it against the cyl"

I'm a little lost there. Can you describe in a little more detail ?

 

[timberwolf]

You just want to have the plug out of the cylindar and grounded, so you can see the spark, turn the saw on pull it over, should see a nice bright blue spark and hear a snap. make sure to keep the plug grounded to the cyl metal to metal so you don't zap yorself or dammage the coil.

BAD idea to pull an engine over if the plug wire has no path to ground, the high voltage can then arc inside the coil and break down the insulation.

 

[Dale]

Timberwolf, thanks. I got ya now. I'll "shine" up a spot to assure I get a good spark. I guess that is no different than testing spark on a tractor or anything else then, I just don't want to harm the saw



"Take the saw to someone who knows what the heck they are doing."

Cmon there TreeCo. If you have absolutely nothing good to say then save it. Granted, I'm no saw mechanic, but I have the propensity to attempt to correct problems when they arise, and do "basic" tuneup work. This would be a fairly boring board if everybody out there was a super tech don't ya think ??? or maybe not.

 

[timberwolf]

Spark, fuel and compression, once you know you have these things, then you can look at other details.

 

[Dale]

TreeCo... I can take a ribbing with the best, I just thought you were being a D!ck though.... no harm.

Timberwolf... I thought a saw would still fire up and run with inadequate compression. I thought it would die out while trying to sink it into wood. Good point though. I don't have a comp. tester, but I guess it's time to get one. There could be a problem there because it offers just a little resistence when turning over. I thought it could be due to the fact that it's such a small saw. I'll do a spark test and get back to ya.

 

[retoocs555]

Just kidding you Dale. Don't hold the plug too close to the spark plug opening or you might IGNITE the fuel mix in the cylinder and catch you and your saw on fire.

Good luck

Yeah, thats fun. Ever try smothering out a fire with gas oil soaked rags? To my suprise it worked. A few rags ignited in the process but it did work. Now I keep a fire extinguiser handy and am a little more careful.

I thought it would die out while trying to sink it into wood. Good point though. I don't have a comp. tester, but I guess it's time to get one. There could be a problem there because it offers just a little resistence when turning over. I thought it could be due to the fact that it's such a small saw. I'll do a spark test and get back to ya.

It seems a saw will run down as low as say 90 psi compression but at that low it will bog out when you put it in the wood. Anything below that and either the saw won't run or it will caugh and run for a second on choke.

 

[sugarbush]

Timberwolf, thanks. I got ya now. I'll "shine" up a spot to assure I get a good spark. I guess that is no different than testing spark on a tractor or anything else then, I just don't want to harm the saw



"Take the saw to someone who knows what the heck they are doing."

Cmon there TreeCo. If you have absolutely nothing good to say then save it. Granted, I'm no saw mechanic, but I have the propensity to attempt to correct problems when they arise, and do "basic" tuneup work. This would be a fairly boring board if everybody out there was a super tech don't ya think ??? or maybe not.

Don't worry about such post, some guy's simply don't have the knowledge to advise but have an inner need to sound "impotent". Take a 2 foot piece of car wiring and attach a clamp on either end, one end big enough to go over the plug. some saw's you can't ground to the engine very easy. I suspect if you'v had spark that's not the problem, but if you check there won't be any doubt. next step, put a small amount of gas in carb set choke and if it run's on that but quit's check fuel line, pulse line or hole or may not have rebuilt carb correctly. other thing's that are possible but try that first.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Don't hold the plug too close to the spark plug opening or you might IGNITE the fuel mix in the cylinder and catch you and your saw on fire.

Yeah, thats fun. Ever try smothering out a fire with gas oil soaked rags? To my suprise it worked. A few rags ignited in the process but it did work. Now I keep a fire extinguiser handy and am a little more careful.

You wont ever (well mostly not) catch me doing this, too dangerous plus theres the chance the plug wont even ground properly......


Stick a screwdriver in the plug boot, ground your hand to the case and pull it over slowly.

If you get bit just bumping it over you have very good spark, if you have to haul on it to feel a slight jolt then you know you might have spark issues.


This kind of gives you an idea not only of IF you have spark, but how much spark you have and you will never have to worry about setting yourself on fire.:angry2:


Plus it will save you a trip to the kitchen to get more coffee.

 

[Lakeside53]

I mentioned in another post, about a Stihl 015 AV my in-law gave to me. Out of the case, I got it started after trying a while, but it would only stay running for a few seconds. I thsn figured it needed a carb. cleaning (gaskets, etc...). Well I refubed the carb., new fuel line and filter, new plug. I was ready to hear it purr. Well guess what... NOTHING. I can't even get it to rev for a second now. I'm not sure if it's something I did or ???

Hmmmm how often do points/condensors go bad in a saw ?

What about the coil ? How do I check for a bad coil ?

How bout plug gap. What should it be set at as I just tossed it in out of the box ?

Like I said. I originally was thinking fuel related because it did run for a few seconds, then I put my magic hands to it and it seems I'm going in reverse.

Any thoughts ? I know it could be a million things but if I can test for spark maybe I can get back to a fuel related problem. Well the gaskets on the carb were "fused" to the carb body. I really had to spend time digging the gaskets off... maybe I got a piece clogging a jet. Man I really sprayed it out good though.

Any thoughts ?

Multiple falure points are unlikely... You had spark before so you probably have spark now.

Before you get tied up with the coil testing, go back to where you were before you took off the carb. Assuming it's not flooded put a little gas into the carb (hold it sideways and pull over gently to get the gas into the crankcase) then pull normally and see if it fires and runs for a few. If it does, it's your carb rebuild.

Condensers go bad more often than thought... when they do, and if the saw is run (runs real bad if at all), then the point will be damaged. Sometimes the points just need a cleaning/filing, but the condenser, if bad, needs replacing. Coils - of this type, rarely go bad.

 

[sugarbush]

I mentioned in another post, about a Stihl 015 AV my in-law gave to me. Out of the case, I got it started after trying a while, but it would only stay running for a few seconds. I thsn figured it needed a carb. cleaning (gaskets, etc...). Well I refubed the carb., new fuel line and filter, new plug. I was ready to hear it purr. Well guess what... NOTHING. I can't even get it to rev for a second now. I'm not sure if it's something I did or ???

Hmmmm how often do points/condensors go bad in a saw ?

What about the coil ? How do I check for a bad coil ?

How bout plug gap. What should it be set at as I just tossed it in out of the box ?

Like I said. I originally was thinking fuel related because it did run for a few seconds, then I put my magic hands to it and it seems I'm going in reverse.

Any thoughts ? I know it could be a million things but if I can test for spark maybe I can get back to a fuel related problem. Well the gaskets on the carb were "fused" to the carb body. I really had to spend time digging the gaskets off... maybe I got a piece clogging a jet. Man I really sprayed it out good though.

Any thoughts ?

When you put a kit in did you change the needle?

 

[timberwolf]

As lakeside pointed out chances are that you don't have a new and unrelated problem, however when you have the carb off it is easy to pull a wire of the ignition switch or pinch a wire. Or if the saw was pulled over without a sparkplug while turned on the ignition could have been dammaged.

If things go strange it is just a good idea to go back to the basics and make sure a second problem has not been introduced.

 

[Dale]

All good thoughts guys, and thanks much. Well I don't like the thought of catching myself and everything else on fire, so it would probably help to drain most of the gas out of the tank before trying that spark test eh ? My I noticed that the 015 tank doesn't hold much fuel compared to my 028.

TreeCo, I pulled on that thing probably 30 times, so there was gas fumes coming from everywhere

Sugarbush, yes I replaced the needle, 2 screens, paper gaskets, and what I call "membranes" (the gaskets that feel kinda like laytex). I assumed that the paper gaskets went against the carb's body, and the "membranes" went on top of the paper gasket, then the caps. I didn't have anything to reference on how the gaskets layered on so that's how I did it.
I couldn't get that C-shaped retainer out to replace it and the screen, so I dug the old screen out, and placed the new screen just over the top of the hole, and put the gasket on top. I removed the H/L needles and springs and sprayed gumout through every port.

Well the spark test should at least tell me whether or not I may have shake a wire loose.

I gotta get a new pullstring as the other was worn and snapped after attempt 30 or so.

 

[cuttinscott]

yes I replaced the needle, 2 screens, paper gaskets, and what I call "membranes" (the gaskets that feel kinda like laytex). I assumed that the paper gaskets went against the carb's body, and the "membranes" went on top of the paper gasket, then the caps. I didn't have anything to reference on how the gaskets layered on so that's how I did it.
I couldn't get that C-shaped retainer out to replace it and the screen, so I dug the old screen out, and placed the new screen just over the top of the hole, and put the gasket on top.

Yep you have the carb assembled wrong. Pay attention to the disassembly process if you do not have a diagram. On the meter pump side the gasket installs before the diaghram. On the fuel pump side the diaghragm installs then the gasket. Also that screen and clip need to be pressed into place.

Scott

 

[Dale]

"On the meter pump side the gasket installs before the diaghram. On the fuel pump side the diaghragm installs then the gasket."


OOPS. And I thought the "yo-yo" that did the last carb rebuild just happened to get the membrane(diaphragm) placed on first by mistake. Guess I'll tak er back apart.

What kind of tool does a guy need in order to get that little tiny clip out ? Looks like you almost need some sort of dental pic.

 

[THALL10326]

I mentioned in another post, about a Stihl 015 AV my in-law gave to me. Out of the case, I got it started after trying a while, but it would only stay running for a few seconds. I thsn figured it needed a carb. cleaning (gaskets, etc...). Well I refubed the carb., new fuel line and filter, new plug. I was ready to hear it purr. Well guess what... NOTHING. I can't even get it to rev for a second now. I'm not sure if it's something I did or ???

Hmmmm how often do points/condensors go bad in a saw ?

What about the coil ? How do I check for a bad coil ?

How bout plug gap. What should it be set at as I just tossed it in out of the box ?

Like I said. I originally was thinking fuel related because it did run for a few seconds, then I put my magic hands to it and it seems I'm going in reverse.

Any thoughts ? I know it could be a million things but if I can test for spark maybe I can get back to a fuel related problem. Well the gaskets on the carb were "fused" to the carb body. I really had to spend time digging the gaskets off... maybe I got a piece clogging a jet. Man I really sprayed it out good though.

Any thoughts ?

Hmmmmmmmmm going by your steps there sounds like ya made a boo boo somewhere in your carb repair. It ran at first but wouldn't stay running means you had fire to begin with. Not likely your coil went kapoot waiting for the carb to be put back on. From what you described at first, ran but wouldn't run long, tends to sounds like a clogged carb or in need of a kit and cleaning as well. Now that you've rebuilt the carb she isn't running at all. There's ya sign. If I were you heres what I would do just to find out real quick whether you have a fuel related problem there. Pull the plug out and leave it out. Unhook the fuel line from the carb and crank the engine watching the spark plug hole as you crank. If you see gas spitting out fine, just keep cranking untill you don't see anymore gas coming out. What your doing is clearing out the engine of excess fuel if there is any in there. Now clean the plug and reinstall. Leave the fuel line unhooked. Turn on the switch and shoot a shot of starting fluid in the carb while you squeeze the trigger. Not a huge amount, just a squirt. Starting fluid is no good for engines but it will tell you what we need to know right off without any harm to the engine. After shooting a shot down thur the carb with the trigger squeezed and the switch on its time to crank the the enigne. If it fires, and it probly will ,you have solved the fire question altogether. If she fires on starting fluid it will most likely fire on fuel mix as well. With that out the way you proceed to hook the carb line back up, choke it and if its getting any fuel at all it should at least fire. Choke and crank it several times. If it never fires pull the plug and look for fuel. If you don't see any wettness on your plug your not getting any fuel. If its soaking wet your carb is pouring fuel in and either way you got a fuel problem. A good easy way to see if your carb is really pouring in fuel is to take out the plug and crank the engine with the the fuel line hooked to the carb. If you see fuel pouring out the spark plug hole while you crank it you got a fuel problem. You perforemd the basic tests and now go by what you have seen so far. If its pouring fuel in you got a fuel problem, if you see no fuel at all you still got a fuel related problem.
Its not likely at all that your coil went south all the sudden while you rebuilt the carb. Pulling the plug and grounding it againist the engine block is a way to see if you got spark but not a accurate way. Under compression is when you need spark and if the coil is weak you will see spark if the plug is out of the engine but no spark if its under compression. Seeing how you said it ran for a few seconds at first before you rebuilt the carb chances are your coil is ok. Dig back in that huzzy of a carb and go over it again. You got a good project saw there so take ya time and don't get all hasty and fired up over it, use ya patience on it and you'll get her going.....

 

[Dale]

THALL.. thanks for the encouragement. Man you guys are all really so helpful. Yeah as I said, this saw came to me looking real perty on the outside, and realllllly neglected on the inside. I don't have a service manual, although they really just seem to touch on the outermost "how to's" and don't get into much depth once you get into the guts. I did order one from the Stihl website though. Yeah I thought that someone made a ****oo installing the diaphragm then the gasket on top of it, guess it was me making the ****oo.

Repair guy told me not to worry about the screen that has the C-clip go over it, but it looked realllly laquered up, so I dug it out. All in all, it's tough not having the right tools. Something as simple as digging out that little clip is so doggone hard without the proper tool. I gotta look at a parts store ad try to get a little pic of some sort. thanks again all.

 

[THALL10326]

THALL.. thanks for the encouragement. Man you guys are all really so helpful. Yeah as I said, this saw came to me looking real perty on the outside, and realllllly neglected on the inside. I don't have a service manual, although they really just seem to touch on the outermost "how to's" and don't get into much depth once you get into the guts. I did order one from the Stihl website though. Yeah I thought that someone made a ****oo installing the diaphragm then the gasket on top of it, guess it was me making the ****oo.

Repair guy told me not to worry about the screen that has the C-clip go over it, but it looked realllly laquered up, so I dug it out. All in all, it's tough not having the right tools. Something as simple as digging out that little clip is so doggone hard without the proper tool. I gotta look at a parts store ad try to get a little pic of some sort. thanks again all.

You don't need any encouragement at all. I can tell from your posts you are determind to get that ole baby running and I'm positive you will. I have one of those little critters out in my shed that looks new and runs perfect. Its not really mine, a customer of mine told me to hang onto it for him. Since that was a year or so ago its getting closer and closer to being ole daddy's,haha. Depends on which one of us dies first,hehe.
You are very correct, its hard dealing with something when ya don't have the tools at hand that you need. Sorta like the feller that was shot in the crotch in the war and came home and married a hooker, he just didn't have the right tools to keep her going,lol.
You will indeed get that saw running, no question in my mind about that. Beings that thing has sat around for lord knows how long it may be in ya best interest to find a new carb and toss that low life, no account huzzy of a slezzy slim dog carb thats on it now. Oooooooooops, I forgot , you gotta have patience. See even us old timers get carried away when problems arise but the smart ones remain cool and getter done. You remain cool and you will getter done I'm certain.

 

[Gologit]

Dale...I admire your patience but I'm sure everybody here would understand that if you decide to put on a new carb,throwing the old one against the wall just as hard as you can wouldn't be considered bad behavior.